tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17582952.post8509067209663471384..comments2023-06-14T09:59:17.258-04:00Comments on A Thinking Man's Thoughts: Follow-Up Post 1: Perceived Weaknesses of "Older" Fundamentalism - Preaching ConcernsFrank Sansonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09827320724505906703noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17582952.post-82011391325115258312010-05-06T00:57:36.707-04:002010-05-06T00:57:36.707-04:00Andy and Ryan,
I guess it would be pretty difficu...Andy and Ryan,<br /><br />I guess it would be pretty difficult to make a definitive statement in regards to the quality of preaching between the different "camps." Sorry if I came across as trying to do so. <br /><br />I will quote myself, however, as saying: (is this weird?)<br /><br />However, while I don't think we ought to necessarily be picking teams and making comparisons on things like this, I would say that I would put Minnick's series on Philippians up against even Mac's series on the same passage. Or Franklin's series on 2 Peter or Doran's message on 1 Corinthians 15 at the National Leadership Conference a couple of year's ago. <br /><br /><br />Ryan,<br /><br />In regards to conferences, that is a pretty interesting question. I think it would be interesting to follow up on, although I am not sure I would have the time to do so right now. Assuming we focus on the more serious conferences (MACP, NLC with T4G, Shepherds, for instance) I would guess that the Fundies at least hold their own.<br /><br />When you add chapel into the mix, however, I am not sure if the comparisons are still fair. While we may prefer it not to be so, there are a number of factors (relationships, connection between the church and school etc.) that may make the selection of chapel speakers into a little different category. (My guess is that this is true of both "camps, although I don't know.)<br /><br />Frank<br /><br />(I am very tired, so this may not be coherent.)Frank Sansonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09827320724505906703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17582952.post-68367005324742853912010-05-05T02:11:28.526-04:002010-05-05T02:11:28.526-04:00Ryan, for my part, I am quite willing to compare f...Ryan, for my part, I am quite willing to compare fundamentalist conferences in general with the popular evangelical conferences. I don't think fundamentalists need to hang their heads in shame, including many who some would label IFBx. There are several reasons for this, but for my money the better consistent Bible teachers and preachers are on the fundamentalist side, on average.<br /><br />I do acknowledge that my experience is somewhat anecdotal, but it isn't the result of only having listened to one or two preachers to form my opinions. I have had the good fortune to hear hundreds of preachers on the fundamentalist side and ... not so many on the evangelical side. Besides that, my views are not based solely on hearing other preachers. There are other means of observation that tend to bolster the opinion for me.<br /><br />Maranatha!<br />Don Johnson<br />Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17582952.post-62374112721434045692010-05-04T22:06:53.106-04:002010-05-04T22:06:53.106-04:00Frank, good thoughts, in general I agree with what...Frank, good thoughts, in general I agree with what you are saying. Sure, it would not be fair to compare your or my preaching ability with that of the T4G guys. As a younger guy though I would say as somewhat of a response that by and large the men who have been held up in the past as leading preachers of fundamentalism do pale in comparison to those held up by the more conservative elements of evangelicalism. Now I would agree that the trend appears to be changing and Minick/Doran/Bauder/Jordan etc are being recognized as some of the stronger preachers in our movement...at least by some. I am thankful for that change. But still most of your normal Bible conference / chapel speakers come far short (in content and focus not just speaking ability) than JMac/Piper/Dever etc. If you were to compare the conference speaking line-ups of fundys vs. evangelicals I wonder if your response would still stand. just sayin...<br /><br />I also kind of wonder about your statement that preaching is stronger in fundy churches than in evangelical ones. (I think Don made the same claim elsewhere) How can one really evaluate that claim? You are also biasing the comparison by excluding IFBx'ers without likewise excluding the leftward extreme of evangelicalism. Besides,any sort of evidence to support that claim would most likely have to be anecdotal. <br /><br />Not entirely disagreeing with your post, just playing a bit of the devil's advocate from a younger fundie's point of view.Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17582952.post-34014313098311202782010-04-29T01:06:43.589-04:002010-04-29T01:06:43.589-04:00Amen to both of you. I completely agree with both ...Amen to both of you. I completely agree with both Frank's post and Andy's follow-up.<br /><br />Maranatha!<br />Don Johnson<br />Jeremiah 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17582952.post-76655925854037138512010-04-28T17:07:33.716-04:002010-04-28T17:07:33.716-04:00Frank,
I completely agree with you about the need...Frank, <br />I completely agree with you about the need to include topical preaching, especially if you are going to deal with important doctrinal truths. I think there is a necessary place to deal with practical issues as well – separation, modesty, entertainment choices, just to name a few. Completely valid and necessary – to me that is part of shepherding. And, of course, it should all be done exegetically…I don’t think that should be controversial at all. I do think that people have a mindset that if it isn’t expository, then you shouldn’t be doing it at all. That type of thinking is very wrong-headed, imo.<br /><br />As far as who is better or worse at preaching, I don’t really know. I really don’t listen to many guys outside of Fundamentalism, and the ones I do would be their star expositors, but only occasionally. I have no idea how the rank and file out there preach. To be honest, most of the preaching I hear within Fundamentalism comes from conferences that by their very nature tend to be topical in nature.<br /><br />Here’s the problem (or at least a problem). I remember when I was working with the teens in my church and coming back from the Wilds, I was happy and depressed at the same time. I was depressed because I wanted to bottle what went on at the Wilds and produce it in our teen group. You know – the excitement, strong preaching, and commitment – everything that makes the Wilds so fun and so significant. I slowly began to realize, though, that you can’t run a church or a youth group like a camp. You can’t sustain that type of energy and really, the type of preaching that is done at the Wilds is not really the healthiest for long-term ministry within a local church context. Not every message can be on the same big-ticket topical issue, whether it be music, soul-winning, missions, whatever. They hit big themes that need to be hit, but if you only got a diet of that type of sermon, I don’t think that produces long-term growth. And to be honest, probably would result in a false view of sanctification. Local church ministry is slow growth ministry over the long haul. At camp you only got a week so you have to approach the situation from a different perspective. The problem comes when you try to make your church function like camp. That’s when I think we get into trouble.<br /><br />AndyAndy Eftinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05231426728825731848noreply@blogger.com