Jon Meacham - Produce Proof or Publicly Apologize!

I had posted this earlier, but had removed it while I was waiting to hear back from Mr. Meacham. I am re-posting it at this time with the intention of updating it when he gets back to me.

Newsweek managing editor Jon Meacham recently spoke at the inauguration of John Lilley as the president of Baylor University.

If the reports by Tim Woods of the Waco Tribune-Herald are accurate, I believe that Jon Meacham needs to produce some proof regarding one of the claims he made in the speech or publicly apologize to Bob Jones University.

The article is here: Newsweek editor's speech highlights Lilley's inauguration as Baylor head

The particularly egregrious comment, in my opinion is found below:

Meacham interspersed jokes with serious discussion of faith and people’s intellectual examination of their own beliefs. He told the crowd of an e-mail he received from a man at Bob Jones University in Greenville, S.C., in response to an article he wrote for Newsweek.

“The message was to the point: Dear Mr. Meacham, I am praying for you, but I hope you go to hell,” Meacham said.

I cannot honestly believe that Mr. Meacham received such an email from "a man at Bob Jones University." It sounds a lot more like something someone who only knows a caricature of BJU may believe people at BJU think and say, rather than what someone who is actually at BJU would think or say.

If such an email does exist, I want to see it. I would like some proof. I have sent an email to Newsweek seeking a clarification from Mr. Meacham, but the initial reply I got (an automated response with FAQs) led me to believe that I probably will not get much of a response. However, I did get an email in which Mr. Meacham has promised to respond to my concerns.

As a believer and as a BJU graduate, I can attest that I have never heard anyone at BJU express a desire that matches what is claimed to have been included in this email. Christians do not "hope" people go to Hell. We desire for their repentance, not their ultimate damnation.

Mr. Meacham's offense will probably not get any play in the MSM, but it is not an innocent offense. Perhaps it would be better understood by Mr. Meacham and his friends if the shoe were on the other foot and someone prominent were quoted as saying, "I received a email from a member of the editorial staff at Newsweek and he said that we are going to be devote ourselves to denigrating Christianity as often as we can and we hope that we can get all Christians to stop subscribing to our magazine." Surely they would expect some proof of this email or demand an apology. I am sure that they would already have their lawyers working on a lawsuit by now.

So, let's see it, Mr. Meacham. Put up or apologize. If you actually have some proof, I will just a publically call for an apology from the person who wrote the email and/or the school. I seriously doubt any such proof exists.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Happy Birthday to my Big Girl

Today is the birthday of my oldest daughter, Christina Ruth Sansone. She turns seven today, but we already had her birthday party on Saturday.

Happy Birthday, Christina. I hope that you have had a good birthday today and that you enjoyed having a "school birthday" as well. It hardly seems possible that you are already seven years old. How big you have gotten to be!

I love you, big girl. I love your sensitive spirit. You have always been a quiet and sweet girl. Even when you were young, you managed to find ways to entertain yourself and have fun all on your own. I remember when you were young we could sit you on a blanket with a couple of toys and you would stay there and play with them - we could never get your brother to do that! (And you know we can't get Beka to do that!)

I remember when you came up with your own version of "lizards and sharks" - you were much more relational with them - they had to be friends and do things together, rather than attack each other. Your love for others and your desire to help them is an encouragement to me - how many other little girls do you know who are willing to clean up their brother's room without him even asking? I guarantee you, not many!

I know this last year or so of transition has not been easy for you. You miss your old friends a lot, not just the children, but the older ones like the teen girls who babysat you back in NJ. Hopefully we can visit some of them again soon.

You are growing up soo big. You do a really good job at helping out (when you want to) and you have a very nice singing voice that I love to hear when Mommy plays for you before church on Wednesday nights. I can't believe that you are growing up so fast. A big part of me wants to just stop things so that you and Josiah and Rebekah can always be my little children. Please keep your love for God primary and keep your love for your family and others strong.

I love you, big girl. I pray for you and I hope you have a good birthday.

Love,

Daddy

File under Family_, Personal_

Newsweek post temporarily removed

Earlier today I had published a post about a statement made by an editor of Newsweek. I had emailed Newsweek, but based on the automated response I received from them, I did not expect for my email to actually be answered. I then posted here about the situation. Since my initial post, I have been contacted via email by the person in question and he has expressed an interest in calling me to clarify the situation that I was discussing.

I have therefore removed the previous post until I get get a chance to hear the other side of the story. If you came back here looking for that previous post, I hope you will understand. I will fill in the details once I have had a chance to receive and process this new information.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Sermons available for listening and downloading

After some considerable time trying to figure things out, I am pleased to be able to announce that we are now able to make some of our Sunday Sermons will be available on our church web-site.

It is not our current plan to upload every sermon, as we do not have the space for that type of thing, but it is our desire to make a few sermons available for those who are interested. The new sermons can be found by clicking on the "Audio" link on the main church website page at http://www.fellowshipbaptist-salisbury.org.

The first sermon that has been made available on the web-site is the message from last Sunday (Easter Sunday), entitled "Responses to the Resurrection" on Matthew 28. It can be found through the main church web page as described above, or it can also be accessed through clicking here.

I hope that you find this helpful.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Jesus Walked on Ice?? You have to be kidding me

In one of the stranger attempts to explain away a miracle of Christ that I have seen, an article in the April 2006 edition of the Journal of Paleolimnology suggests that rather than walking on water, Jesus actually walked on ice.

Here is an article about the article: Jesus Could Have Walked on Ice, Scientist Says

I wonder if this scientist or the author of the article actually took time to read the Biblical account of this story.

Mt 14:24-33 But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

If you notice, in the story, there are a number of factors that make this "theory" rediculous.

1. The disciples (of whom a majority are experienced fishermen who had spent much time on this very lake) are in a boat and don't notice all the supposed ice.

2. Christ not only walks on water Himself, He also bids Peter come out and walk on the water, without letting Peter know where to find the floating ice.

3. Apparently Peter's ice was not any good, as Peter began to sink.

This attempted explanation reminds of the old discussion when people claim that the Israelites only crossed a swamp instead of the God parting the Red Sea. Okay, then explain how Pharoah's army all drowned in this swamp.

Christ walked on water. It was a miracle. The disciples recognized it as such and responded the way we all should respond to the miraculous Christ - they worshipped Him.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

File under Bible_, Culture_War, Fundamentalism_

Science is going to save the world! - Ignorance is bliss

A Cliff J. from Chico, California recently demonstrated how ignorance can be bliss, even in the name of "science".

From the Chico Enterprise-Record's website (ChicoEr.com), we are given a beautiful little gem of wisdom under the title "The enlightened masses?"

Among the pieces of wisdom dispensed out from this short piece of writing are the following:

Science education is going to be what ultimately unifies the world, not Bush or Osama bin Laden and the powers from above that they both say are guiding them. But how to spread the truth? Maybe drop science books instead of bombs. How about missionary scientists, using the humanitarian pretense as a means to deliver their message?

I am all for science education and education in general. Of course, what I would encourage in the realm of science education would look a little different than our friend Cliff would envision. For one thing, I would be against the propoganda of evolution being taught as fact in a taxpayer funded educational institution, which i am guessing is exactly what Cliff thinks is so great about "science".

His next quote is also interesting:

Closed minds are everywhere. Here in America, we don't imprison scientists like the Catholic Church did with Galileo, but we still see the fundamentalists terrorizing their children into not listening to their public school science teacher by telling the kids that their teacher is an agent of the devil. Instead of burning the books, they burn the minds of their children, so they're afraid to read the book.

His vitriolic spirit is clearly demonstrated here, as well as his ignorance. First of all, many of the children of fundamentalists are already out of the public school system. Secondly, those children that are still in the government schools are not being terrorized into not listening - they are instead being made aware that just because the teacher says it, does not make it true. Thirdly, no one is accusing the teacher of being an agent of the devil.

Ironically, it is the side of Cliff that comes the closest to advocating burning books in this discussion. Both the Creation Science side and the ID side (I have issues with ID, but not for this post) are advocating providing more information and presenting additional viewpoints to this discussion. It is the "science establishment" in the government schools who are seeking to keep the ideas that are opposed to them oppressed.

When Cliff uses the example of Galileo, it provides a nice parallel, but the parallel works the opposite of his own intention.

In the discussion of the helio-centric universe, we had a powerful and established institution sure of their view and oppressing those who desired to question that view.

In the discussion of evolution and creation, we have a powerful and established institution sure of their view that is oppressing those who desire to question that view.

Cliff finishes off with this dandy,

Be thankful that the world's geologists didn't come from Bob Jones University, or Liberty University (Jerry Falwell's). If they did, your means of transportation would still be a donkey.

Folks, I could not make this up. Since when did the world geologists have anything significant to do with modes of transportation? Were those involved in the "horseless carriage" geologists? Were the Wright brothers geologists? Was Henry Ford a geologist? Please help me see the connection.

I guess as long as you believe that "science" will save the world, then such things as logic and reasoning are no longer necessary. Wow!

Just my thoughts,

Frank


File under Culture_War, Education_, Hot_Issues

Some comments and questions

If you have visited A Thinking Man's Thoughts previously, you surely recognize that there has been some changes made to the blog. You have also probably noticed that until the last day or so it had been a while since I did much posting on this blog.

If you read the post about the Building Dedication, you can probably guess some of the real world issues that have caused blogging to take a back seat. (What the real world trumps blogging? I am obviously a bad blogger!) Another real world project that I have been working on is designing our church website - www.fellowshipbaptist-salisbury.org (we officially changed our name on the Building Dedication Sunday). I also have been working on trying to start digitally recording our sermons at Fellowship Baptist Church,

I am still in the process of making changes to the blog, but I will highlight a couple of these changes and ask for some feedback from those who visit here.

1. Overall layout
I have wanted to set up a three-column layout for awhile now (I tried a few months ago), but I could not figure out how to do it. Part of the idea to this adjusted format is that more of what I want to be visible at a quick glance will now be available without having to scroll down so much. I found the layout at Thur's Templatez

2. Categories for Blogger!!!
One of the frustrations that many people have with Blogger is that there is not a built-in way to tag blog posts into categories. For a lot of people, this is frustrating. A few months ago, I started to move my blog over to Wordpress in part because of this fact. Thanks to netcf2, I finally have a way to do this. Thank you to whoever runs the netcf2 site, as it allows me to have categories for the blog without loosing my "google juice." (One drawback is that I need to go through my old posts and set them up in the categories, but I am making progress!)

3. Added a picture of a thinking man.
One of the more frequent searches that find their way to my site is people looking for a picture of a thinking man. So, I thought I would reward all of those who come here looking for it by at least showing a part of the picture. A believe the picture most people are probably looking for is called "The Thinker" by Rodin.

Anyway, I would love to hear some comments on the overall layout and the categories, etc. (I will say that I have already had one person indicate that they like the old look better.)

Just my thoughts,

Frank

File under Blogging_, Personal_

Building Dedication Sunday

On Sunday, April 9, we celebrated our Building Dedication Sunday at Fellowship Baptist Church. It was great to see many people come out to join us for this special day. We had a number of friends and visitors from locally, as well as a good group of people from our former church (Hardingville Bible Church).

In the morning service, Pastor Mark Franklin from Hardingville Bible Church preached, and he dealt with the building of the walls in Nehemiah's day and encouraged us as we move ahead as a group of believers.



In the afternoon service, Pastor Steve Wagner, the founding Pastor of Messiah Baptist Fellowship (now named Fellowship Baptist Church) spoke on Revelations 2-3 and dealt with the Lord Jesus Christ's messages to the seven churches.



We also enjoyed special music from Mr. John Fleming, Mr. Ken Dennis, and Mrs. Edna Woodhall and had a great time of food and fellowship at the new building.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

File under Church_

Preparation for Building Dedication

On Sunday, April 9, we held our Building Dedication Sunday at the church. It was a great day in which to thank God and to praise Him for what He has done in our midst. I plan on blogging about that soon and including some pictures later this week. Since I do not have the pictures for that day, yet, I thought I would take this space to highlight the work that has been done on the building and then do a post on the Building Dedication soon.

As I look around at the building, I am amazed at God's goodness to us as a church in providing for us such a wonderful place to meet. If someone had said to me last year that we would be in a building this nice by this time, I would have had difficulty believing it. If you had said to me a couple of months ago that the building we are in would look so nice, I would have had difficulty believing that as well.


One of the things that has been encouraging in this whole process is the way that practically everyone has chipped in and helped. It has truly been a team effort and the final product is much nicer than it would have been if I had been the one deciding things by myself.

Here are some pictures for those who have not had an opportunity to see the new building.


File under Church_

A Word of Clarification

I received a lot of hits yesterday due to our little "Happy 19th Birthday Roast" of Scott Anoil. I think that most people who came here via SharperIron or from one of the other guys in the little link or from Scott's blog are aware of a couple of factors that some of my other readers (including some folks from my church, family members and people I know from other places) are probably unaware. SOOO, I wanted to make a couple of quick comments for the few of you who do fit in that category. I know it can be frustrating at times to be on the outside of an inside joke.

1. Scott Anoil is an Assistant Pastor in Illinois whose blog focuses primarily on the issue of Christian music and culture. I have never met him personally, but I have come to respect much of what he writes.

2. Scott is not 19 years old. He is really 26. So, no, he did not write the hymn that we use for Communion as an 18 year old. He is a prodigy of sorts, but not that much of a prodigy.

3. Yes. Scott really was in that picture of the children's choir - at the top. And yes, as far as I know, those are relatively recent pictures of Scott and he really does look like he is only 19 (or 16 of so), even though he is older than that.

4. If you did not go by and see Chris Anderson's addition after the main roast was over, you should go there. Chris has some great pictures (although the pop culture reference escapes me - I am guessing it is from some movie that I have not seen).

5. The obviously marked up picture with the leather jacket, etc. is menat to be a joke. Neither Scott, nor myself or anyone else who was part of this little "surprise" for Scott, would wear anything close to that picture.

Just my (hopefully clarifying) thoughts,

Frank

File under Blogging_, Friends_

Happy Birthday Scott

----- Updated 4-21-2006: If you do not know me or Scott Anoil (either personally or through the internet), please read my Word of Clarification regarding this post. Since I discovered that this post actually comes up fairly highly on a google search of our old church name, I wanted to urge you to check out our church web-site or a normal post on this blog and understand that this is a joke between friends before making any rash decisions about me or the church. ----



Today is an illustrious day in the blogosphere. Our good friend Scott Anoil turns 19 years old today!!! That's right - 19!

Scott is the host of the Kara Ministries Weblog and spends way too much time on the internet.

Here is another recent picture of little Scott. See if you can pick him out among the children.

Scott is also a talented writer who has written a very nice hymn that we often use at our church when we celebrate the Lord's Table, called, We Gather to Remember.

Well, because of his well-known love for all things modern in Christian music - and particularly because of his love for Majesty Hymns, I hereby bequeath to Scott Anoil a copy of Majesty Hymns - complete with his hymn (We Gather to Remember) proudly glued into the back cover. (And yes, I really do have this combination - in about 50 hymnals in our church - enjoy the thought on your birthday, Scott.) Since Scott also clearly appreciates and values being able to entertain others with his music, I also bequeath to him some longer hair and leather pants so that he may fit the part he desires.


Austin Matzko of Il Filosofo also has a BIRTHDAY GREETING FOR SCOTT that you should stop and read.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Category: Friends_, Blogging_, Popular_,

An Interesting Conversation

Today I was reminded again that some of the things that I tend to take as "common knowlege" are not always so commonly known.

Due to a series of unexpected events, I ended up in Olney, Virginia this morning having a conversation with an older "retired" Methodist preacher. He was a relative of a Fundamentalist Pastor who went to BJU and we had a pleasant conversation regarding ministry and preaching vs. teaching and even about the ministries that this Fundamenatlist Pastor has had (being a single-man, he has often had difficulty finding anything more than "barely surviving" churches in IFB churches).

At one point, this relative made a comment about the Fundamentalist Pastor needing to branch out and be willing to go to churches that are from "his school." Knowing enough about this Fundamentalist Pastor to know that he is not a "BJU is the only Fundamental school" type of guy, and having just heard the elderly gentleman speak of preaching in Lutheran, Methodist, and other churches without apparently seeing much difference, I decided to venture a comment on this Fundamentalist Pastor's behalf.

"I can't speak for ..., but I would imagine that his concern is more about the positions of the churches than it is about BJU." When he asked me to elaborate, I commented that when a Pastor goes to a church to preach, he is in some ways at least endorsing that church.

This older gentleman, with years of ministry experience, said, "I have never thought of that before." Part of me was floored. In my thinking, I tend to jump to the conclusion that everyone who does not practice Biblical separation has made a choice to reject Biblical truth. This man reminded me (though his response) that there are many men out there - even men who have been preachers for years - whose disobedience in this area is as much out of ignorance as out of rebellion.

We had an intersting conversation as he explored some questions on this topic and I shared passages and principles that I could remember off the top of my head. It was also interesting for me to see this man catch some of the principles himself. At one point he asked me about "going to a resturant or a store", but before I could complete my answer, (I had started by saying, "when I go to McDonald's, I go there as a customer" ...) and he finished it with, "you are not going there to worship."

(BTW, in case you are wondering about why this gentleman had not heard this from his Fundamentalist Pastor relative, he did indicate that they had agreed years ago to not discuss theology.)

Anyway, I thought this was an interesting discussion.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

File under Fundamentalism_, Christianity_, Personal_

Meaningless March Madness Update

I have not had much chance/time to post this last couple of weeks. I don't even know if anyone is still visiting here or not.

In case anyone is wondering, the Coin Flip guy is still winning in the March Madness Tournament. If I had taken it more seriously this year, that would be depressing.

In second place is the person who would represent what would happen if you just selected all of the higher seeds.

My selections based on who I would like to see do well is in 3rd place - beating my predictions of the teams that I actually thought would win.

The fake person representing the Republican states is in fifth place.

Andy Rupert follows the Republican states - but should actually be winning if the points were just scored by getting the picks correct. (Unfortunately for Andy, the rules were set up to give a bonus that added the seed value of the winning team to points for getting the pick right.)

So... the real human who is doing the best is really ANDY RUPERT. The real human who is doing best by the scoring system provided is FRANK SANSONE. And both of us are being beaten by the Coin Flip.

Oh, well.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

File under Sports_, Personal_, Humor_

This is sad!

I started a Tournament Challenge the other day, but I did not generate much interest.

In order to make it a little more interesting, I decided to create a few fake players.

The fake players made their choices based on the following criteria.

1. One players choices were determined by flipping a coin
2. One players choices were determined by choosing the higher seed for each game
3. One players choices were determined by choosing the lower seed for each game
4. One players choices were determined by choosing the team that was from a state that voted for George Bush as president in 2004 (if both teams or neither team fit the category, the higher seed was selected).

After the first night of games, the top player was not me or another real person, but rather the fake player whose choices were determined by flipping a coin.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

File under Sports_

March Madness!

Okay. I might get killed for this, but I HAVE TO do it.

I know I am behind on getting back to my reports from the National Leadership Conference at Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary in Lansdale, Pennsylvania. Things have been kind of busy around here with the new building and all. We are trying to get everything together for our Building Dedication Sunday on April 9 (this is a change from the original March 26th date).

However, even with making that plea of being busy, there are some things that are just a tradition for me. And one of those traditions is having a little friendly competition regarding the NCAA Basketball Tournament - The Road to the Final Four.

When I was teaching and occassionally with youth group, I would have brackets available for the students in my class and have a little competition in the classes, posting the brackets that had been filled out and keeping track of who was doing the best, etc.

(As a Youth Pastor, for a couple of years we had a March Madness Basketball Tournament on Final Four Saturday - complete with trophies, food, fellowship, an evangelistic sermon and the Final Four games on in a room where those who were not watching the live games in the gym could watch the Final Four games.)

Anyway, I am going to start A Thinking Man's NCAA Tournament Bracket Challenge and I hope some of you join me.

For those of you who are worried about me being a ringer, pleae be aware that I have watched no single NCAA Basketball game in its entirety this year and have only watched or listened to more than a few minutes of about 5 games (and I think that is a high estimate).

The bracket challenge is set up through CBSSportsline.com. I have used them in previous years and they never sent me a bunch of junk, so I would assume the same would be true this year, as well.

The group can be reached at http://athinkingmansthoughts.mayhem.sportsline.com/e
The password you need in order to join the group is "tourney".

If you have not registered with CBS Sportsline before, you will need to register in order to take part.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

File under Sports_

If you have not found this already

I am sure that many of you are aware of Phil Johnson's recent presentation at The Shepherd's Conference entitled "Dead Right: Part Two"
I have yet had the time to respond (and at this point with all the responses done, not sure one more voice is going to add much - I think I'll wait for Doran or one of the big guns - besides, I want to get back to doing some more National Leadership Conference Reports on here).

Anyway, I did want to point you to Mike Riley's response on his blog: On 'Dead Right: Part Two' (HT: Scott Anoil)

I also appreciate some of the comments of Larry Rogier over in the SI thread.

Just other people's thoughts,

Frank

File under Conferences_, Hot_Issues, Fundamentalism_, Internet_

Settlement is completed! Praise the Lord!

After an unexpected delay, we are rejoicing tonight in the Lord's goodness in allowing us to go to settlement and complete the purchase of our new church building.

As was mentioned in a previous post on The Pastor's Pen, we were scheduled to go to settlement on our new building back on February 1, but we ran into some difficulty in the process.

Praise the Lord, that today - exactly one month after the originally scheduled date - we went to settlement at 4:00 p.m. We are now the happy owners of a new church building located at 1308 Robins Avenue in Salisbury, Maryland. If you live in the area, we would love to have you come and visit us. If you are from out of the area, we would love to have you stop by when and if you come to town. If you have been praying for us as we have been seeking a building, we thank you for your prayers for us.

Here are a couple of pictures of the new building.






File under Church_

Welcome, visitors

For those of you over here from Greg's Link over at Sharper Iron, I intend to get back to evaluations and comments about various sessions and workshops at the National Leadership Conference shortly.

First, however, I want to get this little matter of our church completing the purchase of a building out of the way! (Please pray for us - closing is schedule for 4:00 p.m. EST on Wednesday, March 1 - TODAY!) As was mentioned on The Pastor's Pen, we were originally supposed to go to closing exactly one month ago on February 1, so this is kind of "touchy" time.

The National Leadership Conference articles are as follows:
Tne National Leadership Conference - General Thoughts
National Leadership Conference - One More Quick Thought
Separation from Professing Brethren - A Summary and Comments regarding a presentation by Dr. Kevin Bauder
Shaping the Future - some comments regarding church internships flowing from presentations by Pastor Mark Franklin and Pastor Dan Brooks

File under Church_, Conferences_

We Interrupt These Reports

We interrupt these reports on the National Leadership Conference to provide an update on our building situation and ask for your prayers.

As has been mentioned in previous posts, Messiah Baptist Fellowship is in the process of trying to purchase a church building for our use.

We were originally scheduled to go to closing on February 1, but there was some difficulty that the selling church experienced that led to a delay in this process. We are currently meeting in the building, but we do not own the building, as yet.

Anyway, the update is that closing has been re-scheduled for tomorrow, Wednesday, March 1, 2006 at 4:00 p.m. Please pray for us that everything works out well and that we are able to complete this purchase for our church and that God would allow us to use this new building for His glory as we move forward for Him.

In Christ,

Pastor Frank Sansone

File under Church_, Personal_, Conferences_

Shaping the Future - Pastoral Internships

Two of the sessions that I had the privilege of attending at the National Leadership Conference dealt touched upon the concept of Pastoral Internships. It is refreshing to see that a number of the bigger sized (by this I mean 400 or more, not necessarily the mega-churches) Fundamental churches are beginning to understand and pursue this type of ministry as a regular function of their ministry. It is one of my hopes and prayers that we will be able to be involved in this kind of ministry as a church before too long. (Of course, I envision the work of God going forth across the Delmarva Peninsula in such a way that strong, Fundamental, Baptist churches are able to be found throughout the Peninsula some day, but that is still a little down the road.)

Prior to coming to Messiah Baptist Fellowship in December of 2004, I spent the previous five plus years at Hardingville Bible Church in New Jersey under the leadership of Pastor Mark Franklin. This church has had an ongoing Pastoral Internship program for a number of years now and can happily point to a number of men in the ministry who have "graduated" from the internship program at HBC and are now out serving as Pastors (and a missionary). During my time there I had the opportunity to work with three of these interns and eventually ended up becoming one of the interns myself (albeit my "internship" was different in nature than the normal internship program). It is a neat thing for the church (and I am sure for Pastor Franklin as well) to be able to see the men that come in mature in their faith and in their ministry skills during their time involved in the internship program at HBC.

The two sessions that I went to that touched on this area of ministry were "Are you Helping to Shape the Future? Let's talk about Internships" by Pastor Mark Franklin of Hardingville Bible Church in Monroeville, NJ and "Making Sure We Are Making Disciples: Comprehensive Methods for Church Planting in a Changing World" by Pastor Dan Brooks of Heritage Bible Church in Greer, SC.

Both of these men presented helpful ideas in this area (Pastor Brooks' presentation dealt more tangentially upon the topic as part of his overall presentation, while Pastor Franklin's presentation was focused upon this issue). Obviously I have seen Pastor Franklin's ministry in this area first-hand and up-close, so there was not a lot that was necessarily "new" to me in this presentation, but it was good to see him present it to others who were not familiar with his ministry. Pastor Brooks is one of those guys who must have a memory like a steel trap. He was the President of Inter-Society Council at BJU back when I was first elected as Vice President of Bryan Society in 1988 or so. As far as I know, I have only seen him maybe two times since then - once at a conference at the Wilds and once this past week. In both cases, he addressed me by name - even though I cannot imagine how he could remember my name after all these years (it is one thing for me to remember him - he was ISC President, Pastor's a fairly large church in the Greenville area, speaks at conferences like this one, etc., but for him to remember me is quite a feat).

In Pastor Franklin's presentation, he dealt with the Scriptural responsibility of training men in ministry and the Shepherding role of the Sr. Pastor in this process. He dealt a little bit with everybody favorite verse on discipleship and leadership training (2 Timothy 2:2) and particularly mentioned some of the things that we know about Paul's relationship to Timothy. He also dealt a little bit with the Old Testament example of the "sons of the prophets" who seem to have been men being trained by Elijah and Elisha.

One of the things that is revealed as you look at the relationship between Elijah and Elisha and Paul and Timothy is that there seems to be a number of areas where the younger men followed in the steps of their "mentors". Of course, that should not surprise us, since Christ said:

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Three areas that Pastor Franklin mentioned specifically is that when Pastors train Pastors the younger Pastor should be developed in his education, exposure, and experience. He also reminded us that "More is caught than taught" in a setting like this.

I want to spend a lot more time on this down the road and the whole concept of training men for ministry, but that would require time that I do not currently have.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

File under Conferences_, Ministry_