Mark Dever's Interview of Mark Minnick - Part 1

In a previous post, I highlighted the 9 Marks interview of Dr. Mark Minnick by Dr. Mark Dever on the subject of Fundamentalism and the Doctrine of Separation.

While I have only known of Dr. Dever's ministry for the last couple of years, I appreciate a lot that I have read and heard coming out of the ministry in D.C., although I agree with Dr. Dever that he would not be considered a Fundamentalist in the way that I understand Fundamentalism.

I had the privilege of attending Mt. Calvary Baptist Church in Greenville for a couple of years during Dr. Minnick's early years as the Sr. Pastor of the church. I also had Dr. Minnick for a few classes at Bob Jones University and consider him a very gifted preacher and godly man.

What I would like to do in this post is to kind of give a "lay of the land" in regards to the interview, with my comments interspersed. I want to do this so that those who have not had a chance to listen to the interview can at least attempt to follow along.

The interview apparently took place in February at Capitol Hill Baptist Church and was, in part, the result of an earlier get-together between Dr. Dever and some Fundamentalist Pastors in the Greenville area. The interview does not indicate who, other than Minnick, was at that meeting, although some of the names have been indicated in other places in the blogosphere.

In the beginning of the interview, Dr. Dever seeks to start by introducing the topic - Fundamentalism and separation - and introducing the interviewee - Dr. Minnick. If you are familiar with Dr. Minnick, there is not a lot in this first section to draw attention to other than a couple of quick things.

1. Dever made it clear very early in the interview (1:25) that there was a clear area of difference between Minnick (and the other Pastors at that meeting) and himself was over the issue of "how we associate with other Christians - how we decide to do that" (i.e. separation). It seemed to me that early on Dr. Dever was wanting to get at the core of the issue. I appreciated that and felt that he kept trying to do this over and over throughout the interview.

It must have been a little frustrating to him that Dr. Minnick seemed to have been more interested in making sure that Dr. Dever understand the areas of agreement - and to recognize that Fundamentalism was not some weird unorthodox monster hiding in the corner like some Evangelical leaders try to portray it. (See the recent Evangelical Manifesto or Rick Warren's comments on Fundamentalism for a couple of examples of this.)

In a large way, it was very frustrating to me as well. However, as I reflected on this a little more, I think that I may not have given Dr. Minnick enough credit in my initial thoughts regarding this. Dr. Minnick was not on his "home turf" and the reality is that while guys like Don, Greg, Andy, Chris, Ben, Bob and others in the "Fundamentalist Blogosphere" - including most of those who will read this and many who discuss these things at SI - have been discussing exactly the point of tension that Dr. Dever was asking about, Dr. Minnick undoubtedly realized that the audience of the 9Marks interview goes beyond this small group of people - and was probably therefore more careful that I would have been about making sure people get a better "big picture" of Fundamentalism. In other words, this is not Dr. Doran in the comments section of Chris or Ben's blog discussing the finer points of these issues (something that appeals to people like me who are intimately concerned with these issues), but rather a broader audience that, in general, is pretty ignorant of Fundamentalism - and whose ignorance of Fundamentalism is often fueled by the very unbalanced and uneducated critiques of Fundamentalism that I mentioned earlier. So, while I would have loved for Dr. Minnick to just have delved into the issue of Fundamentalism and separatism strongly from the beginning, I recognize that his approach in this area, while not as satisfying to guys like me, was probably the wiser approach, as it helped to correct some of the common mischaracterizations about Fundamentalism before hitting on the more minute points. (I also wonder if there is an aspect of still wanting to "go as far on the right road" as you can, so emphasizing the areas of agreement at this point may have been viewed as more helpful in that attempt.)

2. Dr. Dever also commented during this point, that while Dr. Dever sometimes refers to himself as a "fundamentalist" he is not a Fundamentalist in the way that Dr. Minnick would mean the term. Dr. Minnick's answer here was "I think we are [agreed] in our instincts and I think we are agreed in terms of Biblical principle - its probably the extension of them that would be where the difference comes."

This is one of those points where I would have loved to have heard more elaboration from Dr. Minnick. Perhaps some more had been said in the Greenville discussion that clarified this for these two men, but I wonder about the agreement in terms of Biblical principle. Perhaps someone from CHBC can fill me in here: Does Dr. Dever believe that it is ever necessary (outside of the context of a local church) to separate from professing believers? It may be - after all, perhaps that is part of what the de-funding of the D.C. Convention was about - but I am not sure I have heard him articulate this position and would find this a significant shift from the arguments that Evangelicals were making regarding this concept as little as 10 years ago. (When the mantra often seemed to be - "No. That only applies to laziness.")

3. It is also during this part of the interview that Dr. Minnick is given the opportunity to define Fundamentalism and gives the definition that I mentioned on my last post:

A Fundamentalist is a person who believes the essentials of the Christian faith and believes that they are also the essentials for fellowship and cooperation - particularly spiritual cooperation.

I appreciated this definition from Dr. Minnick. While I may have opted for a little more militancy in my definition of Fundamentalism (perhaps more along the lines of Curtis Lee Laws' - "those who hold to the great fundamentals and mean to do battle royal for the faith." ), I like the fact that this definition keeps a focus on two of the key aspects of Fundamentalism - the insistence on orthodoxy and the importance of limiting fellowship to those who are also orthodox.

4. It is also during this first section where Dr. Dever comments that Dr. Minnick is advocate of "what we might call a ‘deliberate Christian' or ‘deliberate cooperation'" (a play off of Dr. Dever's book The Deliberate Church.

5. Dr. Dever also mentions that he had read Dr. McCune's book - Promise Unfulfilled: The Failed Strategy of Modern Evangelicalism - and found himself agreeing with much of his critique of Evangelicalism. He also stated he found himself only in "mixed agreement" with what Dr. McCune positively advocated. I would love to have seen some follow-up at that point - what areas of what Dr. McCune advocated was he in agreement with and what areas was he in disagreement with and what areas was he unsure. (Again, perhaps this will be covered in a follow-up interview with Dr. McCune :) ).

6. Dr. Dever then asked for a "quick tour" of Fundamentalism as a whole, since listeners will know "different parts of the elephant." While Dr. Minnick was correct in identifying the fact that Fundamentalism is not monolithic, I felt that this is one of the areas where he could have been much more clear in indicating that much of what he called "sectarian Fundamentalism" is repudiated by mainstream Fundamentalism and has ceased to be "Fundamentalism" due to its leaving of orthodoxy on issues such as its pragmatic soteriology and radical views on inspiration.

7. In this section, Dr. Minnick also responds (in response to a question regarding Hyles, etc.):

The fact is that in terms of the practicalities of cooperation and association they just don't intersect much. In some cases it isn't really a studied issue where they came to a definite determination at this point in time we no longer will interact with each other.

While there is probably truth to that for some Fundamentalists. The problem with this is that there SHOULD BE a definite determination that we will no longer interact with this type of "so-called" fundamentalist.

8. In the end of this section, Dr. Minnick points out that the question is laid out in the title of a book by Iain Murray based on a sermon that was preached at Grace Community Church - "Unresolved Controversy - Unity with Non-Evangelicals."

Dr. Minnick comments that

That was the issue that divided the Evangelical world 60 years ago. The Fundamentalism that I am familiar with took the position that that controversy is resolved in the Bible and "No. You ought not for spiritual purpose fellowship with and cooperate with non-evangelicals."

Since I see that this is getting long, I will stop here for tonight. (Besides it is past my bed time.)

Anyway, these are just some thoughts,

Frank

Some great advice for Pastors

Tim Challies (who is billed as "The world's most famous Christian blogger") has been "live-blogging" the Banner of Truth conference that is going on in Pennsylvania this week.

I appreciate a lot about the ministry of Banner of Truth, even though I am not a Reformed Baptist in the way that they would mean the term. I have appreciated a number of the commentaries that they have reprinted, the Puritan works they have brought back to life and some of the other materials that they publish and have visited their bookstore and warehouse in Carlisle, Pennsylvania a couple of times with Pastor Franklin and some folks from Hardingville Bible Church - and gotten some great "damaged" books as well.

Anyway, I said all of that to point you to an post by Tim Challies in which he discusses a presentation by Iain Murray entitled "Our Present Needs." Though the presentation is obviously directed at the men at the conference, I believe it is a worth-while read - especially for those in ministry.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

(I still plan on getting to the Minnick interview - this will count as a "make-up post" for one of the days I missed :) )

Some quick thoughts on the Minnick interview

I finally got a good chance to actually listen to the 9Marks interview of Dr. Mark Minnick by Dr. Mark Dever. My home computer had some difficulty playing the file and I had not had a chance to download it on to my laptop so that I could listen to the interview properly.

I am working on more specific comments and evaluation, but I will make a couple of quick ones to start off.

First, I think that the conversation between Don Johnson, Greg Linscott and Andy Efting over at an oxgoad, eh is worth the read because I agree with part of what each of these guys have said.

I recognize that being in a situation of being interviewed like this is probably an uncomfortable situation. I know that I would probably feel uncomfortable and as I listened to the interview, I felt that Dr. Minnick was a little uncomfortable as well - especially for the first half-hour or so.

I also agree with Andy that the interview got cut off at the time that it was finally getting interesting.

I thought Minnick's definition of Fundamentalism was pretty good. "A Fundamentalist is a person who believes the essentials of the Christian faith and believes that they are also the essentials for fellowship and cooperation."

I think that Dr. Minnick did a pretty good job with the Galatians 2 passage, but I am not sure how much of it Dr. Dever understood.

I would have liked for the distinctions to be drawn more clearly. Although both men were clear there were differences, it seemed to me that the differences were negligible - even though I know that the are real differences between the positions of the two men.

I thought it was interesting how little Dr. Dever knew about Fundamentalism. He seems to be genuinely interested in learning about Fundamentalism - as though he has very little interaction with it or thoughts about it until recently.

I hope to have a more detailed analysis tomorrow.

One last thing. I wanted to create a transcript of the interview - or at least of relevant parts - so that I could think through it and analyze it more accurately. In order to do so, I used Express Scribe and at times reduced the speed pretty strongly so that I could type without having to rewind as much. The effect of doing that was that at times it sounded like two drunks discussing theology - it struck me as kind of funny.

Just my (initial) thoughts,

Frank

Mark Minnick Interview available at 9Marks

Many of my readers will be familiar with both Dr. Mark Minnick and Dr. Mark Dever. The latest audio from Mark Dever's 9Marks ministry features an interview by Dr. Dever of Dr. Minnick.

The audio can be found here.

The Audio is titled "Fundamentalism and Separation with Mark Minnick" with a note that reads "Pastor and Bob Jones University professor Mark Minnick presents the case for the Fundamentalist doctrine of separation."

I have only listened to the first few moments so far, but early on Dr. Dever comments on that while there is a lot of agreement on many aspects, there is a clear disagreement over the issue of separation. I am looking forward to listening to this and seeing how Dr. Minnick presents the case for separation.

For those of you who may not be familiar with the individuals in question, here is a quick bio.

Dr. Mark Minnick is the Pastor of Mt. Calvary Baptist Church in Greenville, South Carolina. He is also a professor at Bob Jones University. I had Dr. Minnick for a few classes during my days at BJU and I also attended Mt. Calvary for a couple of years while I was an undergraduate student.

Dr. Mark Dever is the Pastor of Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, D.C.. He is also the author of a book entitled "9 Marks of a Healthy Church" and a few other books. He is a leader in the conservative branch of the S.B.C. - having lead the fight to de-fund the D.C. Convention due to its liberalness.

As I have already indicated. They differ on the issue of separation and they know they differ on this issue, so I am looking forward to a good discussion of the issue from these two men.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

HT: Andy Naselli

Memorial Day Poem

The following poem was sent out by Mikey's Funnies (although it is not funny).

I thought it was fitting for Memorial Day.

GOING TO THE GONE
A checklist for Memorial Day

by Greg Asimakoupoulos
May 23, 2008

Go look in on your children still asleep
within their bed.
Remind yourself they're safe and warm
because of some long dead.

Go for a walk through cemeteries
lined with little flags.
Take time to ponder homebound heroes
flown in body bags.

Go stand between those granite stones
engraved with names and dates.
Imagine all who died defending
our United States.

Go on and kneel beside a marker
offering a prayer
with gratitude for those who gave their lives
defeating terror.

Go home and count your blessings
from the hands of those now gone.
Then vow to the Almighty that their
mem'ry will live on.

Also found here.

The following note applies to this poem: Copyright 2008 Greg Asimakoupoulos. Permission is granted to send this to others, with attribution, but not for commercial purposes.

Just someone else's thoughts,

Frank

Pop Goes Christianity - An Article Worth Reading

A very interesting article from (of all places) Slate Magazine. I gave some quotes from this article a couple of weeks ago in my "Christians and Popular Culture: Who Said This" post.

The reply by Don Johnson is the type of reply that I was expecting (and imagine I would likely have had more of if someone hadn't know the answer rather quickly).

In the article by Hannah Rosin entitled, "Pop Goes Christianity: The Deep Contradiction of Christian Popular Culture.", the author makes some quotes that many would assume were spoken by some old-school Fundamentalist preacher - or Scott Anoil.

For instance, the article states:

When you make loving Christ sound just like loving your boyfriend, you can do damage to both your faith and your ballad. That's true when you create a sanitized version of bands like Nirvana or artists like Jay-Z, too: You shoehorn a message that's essentially about obeying authority into a genre that's rebellious and nihilistic, and the result can be ugly, fake, or just limp.

It is frustrating to me that the truth of a statement like that seems to be obvious to those who approach "Christian culture" without the agenda of justifying that culture, yet if a Fundamentalist dares to make a comment like that, the Fundamentalist is said to be judgmental or critical - or at least "out of touch."

In Christ's high priestly prayer in John 17, we read these words:

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Yet, it seems like on almost every front where modern evangelicalism (and in some cases, modern Fundamentalism as well) encounters popular culture, the effect is a blending of the cultures in such a way that the distinctly Christian aspect of the culture is lost.

The area of music is one of the most obvious areas where this is encountered. Secular performers have no qualms about identify the music itself as sending a message - a message that is diametrically opposed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet, evangelicals (and some "so-called" Fundamentalists) continually argue that the music is amoral and suggest that the merging of the world's music and the Christian message is not only acceptable, but preferred.

Rather than pursuing the conditions that Christ prayed for, the modern church has reversed the desire of Christ and seems to be pursuing a direction of "of the world, but not in the world."

If you have the stomach for it, there is a site entitled "A Little Leaven" which calls itself an online "museum of idolatry" and gives a little bit of a picture of how bad things have gotten. (I don't endorse all the calls made by the site - but most of them are pretty clear.)

Some related posts may also be relevant.
Blue Suede Shoes - Post 1 and Post 2

The Christians Relationship to the World

R.C. Sproul - Creationist?

I hope to post something of my own tonight, but I saw this article and thought it was newsworthy.

R.C. Sproul has changed his mind regarding origins and has become a literal six-day creationist.

Story here.

HT: Joe Fleener

Just someone else's thoughts,

Frank

Nice service with the BJU Drama Team

On Sunday night, Fellowship Baptist Church of Salisbury had the privilege of hosting the Bob Jones University Drama Ministry Team. (I kept referring to them as the "Truth in Action" Drama Team from BJU, but I think they have dropped that name.)

The team did a great job as they dealt with the concept of the goodness of God even in the midst of trials and difficulties.

In particular, they told the story of a truck accident of Missionaries Terry & Rachel Ritschard in Papua, New Guinea and how God worked in the details of the situation.

One of my good friends is a missionary in Papua New Guinea and it was interesting to hear some of the situations that were mentioned in the team's presentation.

Overall, it was a great emphasis on trusting God and I think that our folks were blessed by the presentation - I know we were as a family.

This particular team will be traveling in Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia and West Virginia. Their itinerary can be found here. If they are in your area, stop by and see them.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

(Okay, I am adjusting the time stamp on this one to allow it to count for Monday night even though it is really early on Tuesday morning. Don't tell anyone.)

Some spelling humor

Recently, Don Johnson caught a few of my spelling/typing errors in my post and comments regarding the straw man version of Fundamentalism (or as I spelled it "Fundameentalism") that is often attacked online.

Anyway, I thought that I would share this picture in light of those comments from Don.


Enjoy.

Just someone else's thoughts,

Frank

Evangelistic Unction

One of the well-known sayings of Dr. Bob Jones, Sr. was that "It takes evangelistic unction to make orthodoxy function."

Sometimes it is easy to get caught up in our own things and forget the importance of being an active and earnest witness to the lost around us. We would be wise to take to heart these words of "The Prince of Preachers."

If sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our
bodies, and if they perish, let them perish with our arms around their knees imploring them to stay. If hell must be filled, at least let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let no one go there unwarned or unprayed for. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

HT: Elon Wood via email

Prayer Request

In much of Fundamentalism (including the church where I serve as Pastor), tonight - Wednesday night - is prayer meeting. I should have posted this earlier so that it could be included in prayer bulletins, since many of those have already been printed by now (depending on where you are located).

Pastor Mark Franklin, who is the Pastor of Hardingville Bible Church in Monroeville, New Jersey, is undergoing lung surgery tomorrow (Thursday, May 15) to remove a cancerous mass in his lung (among other things). Pastor Franklin is a friend and mentor of mine and a great asset to Christianity and Fundamentalism. I had the privilege of serving as his assistant for over five years and I learned much from him.

I would appreciate your prayers for Pastor Franklin and his family as he prepares for and undergoes this surgery tomorrow. (I am sure Pastor Franklin and his family would appreciate the prayers as well.)

Just my request,

Frank

Some Thoughts for Mothers

Kind of tired, but I thought I could put up these items that I found in relation to Mother's Day - bookmark them for next year.

I Corinthians 13 for Mothers (by Jim Fowler)

If I live in a house of spotless beauty with everything in its place, but have not love, I am a housekeeper, not a homemaker.

If I have time for waxing, polishing, and decorative achievements, but have not love, my children learn cleanliness, not godliness.

If I scream at my children for every infraction, and fault them for every mess they make, but have not love, my children become people-pleasers, not obedient children.

Love leaves the dust in search of a child’s laugh.

Love smiles at the tiny fingerprints on a newly cleaned window.

Love wipes away the tears before it wipes up the spilled milk.

Love picks up the child before it picks up the toys.

Love accepts the fact that I am the ever-present “mommy,” the taxi-driver to every childhood event, the counselor when my children fail or are hurt.

Love crawls with the baby, walks with the toddler, and runs with the child,
then stands aside to let the youth walk into adulthood.

Before I became a mother I took glory in my house of perfection.
Now I glory in God’s perfection of my child.

All the projections I had for my house and my children have faded away into insignificance, And what remain are the memories of my kids.

Now there abides in my home scratches on most of the furniture, dishes with missing place settings, and bedroom walls full of stickers, posters and markings,

But the greatest of all is the Love that permeates my relationships with my children.


A Special Breakfast

One Mother's Day morning, a mother was awaken by her two children who came into her room and ordered her to remain in bed and not to get up. The children then ran down the stairs to the kitchen and before long, the mother started to hear the "cling" and the "clang" of cooking utensils.

Thinking how nice this was, she lay in bed in anticipation of a special breakfast in bed from her two adorable children. The smell of bacon wafted up to her room and intensified her anticipation as she waited. And waited. And waited. And worried.

Finally, the children called her to come downstairs. She got up and went down to the kitchen only to find my two kids sitting at the table and finishing off a couple of plates of bacon and eggs.

"As a surprise for Mother's Day," one explained, "we decided to cook our own breakfast."

Just some other people's thoughts,

Frank

Really??

This is a little bit old, but I think it is still relevant. I started writing it in March, but it got saved in draft mode and never finished.

In March, 9 Marks published an e-journal in which the question was asked, "What can we learn from Fundamentalists?"

There has been quite a bit of discussion regarding the articles in that journal and I have basically just watched from afar. (A dear and faithful lady in our church had a very serious stroke around the time the articles came out and we had a number of other things going on at the time of the publishing of the journal.)

At the time, however, I noticed a comment by Ben Wright (aka Paleoevangelical) that I wanted to address, but never completed my post.

Ben wrote an article over at Paleoevanglical regarding Dr. Dave Doran's article in the 9 Marks e-journal.

In the comments on this thread, Ben comments to Bruce:

So Doran seems to be arguing that we can disagree on issues that are not directly tied to the gospel (music, head coverings, the Rapture, etc.) and still have some meaningful level of fellowship together for the gospel. I think that's different from what you (and I) might be used to.

I probably live in an isolated world, but one of the things that I have seen repeatedly running around the internet in the last few years is a memory of some regarding Fundamentalism that just seems strangely distant from the memories of Fundamentalism that I have. I recognize that there are some different streams of Fundamentalism, but I seem to find these divergent memories even from those who are mainly from the same general stream.

For instance, I don't know much regarding paleo ben's background, by my assumption has been that he spent some time at (or even perhaps graduated from) my alma mater or at least from one of its "sister schools" (NBBC, MBBC, etc.). I know that he also was involved in a youth ministry/publishing ministry that I found to be profitable when I was a youth pastor - and whose Leadership Training Course I used and adapted for training our youth leaders. While I do not agree with everything that organization did (and remember my wife and I getting up and leaving at one event that the leader was "performing" at a camp that I like a lot), I think it has been one of the better youth ministry sources available.

However, when I think of those things, it makes it hard to imagine how the statement that I put in block quotes could be accurate. (In fact, it reminds me in some ways of the faulty memories of the Israelites who started to long for the "fleshpots" back in Egypt when things went a little difficult in the wilderness - they "misremembered" the conditions that existed in Egypt before the exodus.)

Mainstream Fundamantalism has always allowed for disagreement on issues not directly tied to the Gospel. For instance, Ben uses the example of head coverings. Come on, Ben. Surely, you are not ignorant of Mt. Calvary Baptist Church where Dr. Mark Minnick serves as Pastor (and where Jesse Boyd, Rod Bell, and Les Olilla served before him) or the Free Presbyterian Church or even BJU up until a decade or so ago. To try to indicate that up until recently Fundamentalism would have viewed head coverings as something to be separated over is implausible and irresponsible.

Are there wacko fringe groups that refer to themselves as Fundamentalist that might make such a thing a matter of separation? Sure. But this discussion was not that it was different from the fringe, but that it was different from the Fundamentalism that Ben and Bruce (Countryman?) were used to.

Therefore, I ask - Really?

Just my thoughts,

Frank

I came across this poem somewhere and was bothered by its opening statement. See if you can tell what bothered me.

A little more kindness,
A little less creed,
A little more giving,
A little less greed,
A little more smile,
A little less frown,
A little less kicking,
A man when he's down,
A little more "we"
A little less "I",
A little more laugh,
A little less cry,
A little more flowers,
On the pathway of life,
And fewer on graves
At the end of the strife.

- Anonymous



Maybe I am reading this incorrectly, but why is it that this author (and many others) seem to think that kindness is in contrast to "creed"? A creed is simply a system of principles which are believed or professed. Since love and compassion are things that are professed and believed by Christians, it would seem that the encouragement would be more upon fulfilling that Christian creed rather than asking for less creed.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Baseball in Small Town America

I recently had the privilege of experiencing Opening Day of Little League for the town of Delmar, Maryland and Delmar, Delaware. (Delmar is "the little town too big for one state" and sits on the border of Delaware and Maryland and has an interesting make-up due to the fact that the town is split down the middle by the state line.)

I played Little League baseball back in the day, but we never had anything to resemble what I witnessed and participated in a couple of Saturdays ago. In honor of Opening Day, Delmar Little League puts on a parade - complete with all of the teams in their own floats (okay, mostly just in the backs of pickups or on trailers pulled by pickups), candy being thrown out to the folks lined up along the parade route, the high school marching band, the town police and other emergency vehicles, etc. It was pretty neat to see the parade go by and see all the players from all of the divisions (from t-ball on up) in their uniforms and excited to get ready to play their first day.



Following the parade were some opening day activities at the National League field. Since this is the 50th year that Delmar has chartered Little League Baseball, there was some extra things that normally do not occur. Local politicians played a roll - including representatives from both Maryland and Delaware due to the nature of the town's bi-state residence. Plaques were presented, balls were thrown out, the National Anthem was played by the marching band, even a benediction was made (during the parade, I was asked to give the benediction). It was a pretty neat spectacle.



Since this was a special 50th year celebration, they assembled the first ever all-star team of Delmar Little League and they honored the man who hit the first ever home run in Delmar Little League history - by giving him the ball that he hit many years ago in a nice casing. (In preparation for the celebration, someone asked his mom - and sure enough, she still had the baseball tucked away in the attic after all these years - my kind of mom!!)

After the ceremonies, there were games on all of the fields and bar-b-q chicken and cotton candy and the concession stands were open. In addition to the festivities, God gave us a beautiful day for baseball.

One of the events that were included in the festivities was the recital of the Little League pledge.

I trust in God
I love my country
And will respect its laws
I will play fair
And strive to win
But win or lose
I will always do my best

When I looked out over the great group of young people assembled and heard them repeat this pledge, I thought how great it would be if this first line were indeed true of all of these kids. Would to God that some of these young people - perhaps even some on Josiah's team - will come to really understand that first line in the Little League pledge this year.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

A Nice New Feature for Blogger

Some of you may already be aware of this, but I just discovered that Blogger now allows you to prepare posts ahead of time and publish them at a future time.

Blogger has had a "Save as Draft" feature which allowed you to write articles for future publications. The only problem was that you still had to long back on when you wanted to publish the article (and adjust the time options as well).

Now you can write a blog post and set the date and time you want it to be posted and blogger will automatically publish it at that date and time.

While this will not necessarily be that big of a deal with this blog, if I decide to ever get serious about regularly updating one of my side blogs such as - Daily Quotes and Illustrations or What Happened on This Date - this would be very helpful.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Great Meetings - Ending too soon!

This last few days we have had the privilege of hosting special meetings at Fellowship Baptist Church with Evangelist J. Mark Kittrell. These meetings ended tonight with an excellent message on the wise and foolish virgins from Matthew 25.

As I mentioned the last time we had meetings with the Kittrells, one of the things that I appreciate about his preaching and his ministry is that he seems to approach things from a Pastoral focus and gives the Word of God the focus rather than stories to attract attention.

I do not mean that Mr. Kittrell never uses illustrations - he does. However, his illustrations tend to be more subdued than what is typically used by evangelists and he actually uses them as "illustrations" - to illuminate - rather than as the driving force behind a message.

One of the things that I had a special privilege of witnessing this week was his interaction with some of the folks from my church. Since the re-scheduling of the meetings meant that Tammisue and the boys could not be with him this week, I accompanied him to a couple of meals instead. It was very enjoyable to join him in the homes of some of our folks. We had great times of fellowship together, even though they were just meeting him for the first time. There was no pretense that Mark was supposed to be treated as royalty because he was THE EVANGELIST.

Having traveled with Mark and Tammisue for a summer, I had observed their transparency up close, but it was a refreshing reminder this week to observe his interactions with folks he barely knew.

I want to again recommend Evangelist Mark Kittrell to those of you Pastors who may read this. You will not be disappointed.

(BTW, Brother Mark also has a good understanding of local church ministry. Not only was he raised in a Pastor's home, he also planted a church in Hawaii before resuming full-time itinerant ministry.)

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Christians and Popular Culture - Who Said This?

Two quotes regarding "Christian" music and "Christian" culture. Who said them?

When you make loving Christ sound just like loving your boyfriend, you can do damage to both your faith and your ballad. That's true when you create a sanitized version of bands like Nirvana or artists like Jay-Z, too: You shoehorn a message that's essentially about obeying authority into a genre that's rebellious and nihilistic, and the result can be ugly, fake, or just limp.

It's always been a stretch to defend Christian pop culture as the path to eternal salvation. Now, they may have to face up to the fact that it's more like an eternal oxymoron.

Just for you to guess,

Frank

Good sermons by Evangelist Mark Kittrell

Tonight we had our second night of Special Meetings with Evangelist Mark Kittrell. Tonight, Brother Kittrell preached on 1 Corinthians 1 and dealt with the need to be a mature church in Christ.

He emphasized the fact that the calling of the church is such that it is God's church - not the church of any particular person. As such, the God who has called us and gifted us, expects us to use those gifts in the service of His Church.

He also cautioned against the contention in the church that showed up in Corinth. Whereas the Corinthian church became divided over personalities and styles, the mature church recognizes that God has gifted everyone differently and rejoices in the differing gifts rather than dividing over the various gifts.

He then focused on the aspect that the mature church has the cross of Christ as its message. While the world may place its prominence upon the wisdom of philosophy or the academics of the scribes or the rhetoric of the disputer, God has went a different direction and has chosen instead to work through and honor the foolishness of preaching. The God who has called His church has chosen to do so by calling the foolish, the weak, the base, and the despised.

On Sunday, during Sunday School, Mr. Kittrell preached on the parable of the soils (my term since the emphasis is not really on the sower, but upon the soil upon which the seed falls). My son took my only pen that I had with me, so I do not have good written notes, but I believe the terminology he used for the various hearers was that the first (wayside) had no understanding, the second (stony ground) had no depth, and the third (thorny) had no commitment. I could be off on this, but I think the idea is at least close.

For Sunday afternoon, we considered Solomon's prayer for the temple dedication and how that the emphasis was on what God would do when His people fell away and sinned. Even though the temple dedication was a high spot in the spiritual history of the nation, Solomon was concerned about the times that would come when Israel would fall away and when Israel may find itself in captivity. I had never really noticed this before.

I wonder if there is a lesson for Pastors in this regarding the way in which we pray with and prepare our people. Solomon seemed to have assumed that the people would fall away and face great difficulties. Are we sometimes too optomistic when we expect to see continual growth in tose with whom we minister? Doesn't the very question even sound more negative than it should?

Just some thoughts,

Frank

Good Start of Special Meetings with Evangelist Mark Kittrell

Today, Fellowship Baptist Church of Salisbury began Special Meetings with Evangelist Mark Kittrell.

Some of you may remember that these meetings were originally scheduled for March and I blogged about them in an earlier article entitled, "Upcoming Meetings with Evangelist Mark Kittrell."

As I mentioned on another post, Mr. Kittrell's mom became very sick around the time of our meetings and we had to reschedule the meetings so that he could be with his mom before she died.

Well, this week is the rescheduling of those meetings.

I am planning on giving some notes and comments from the various messages as the week progresses, but since the post that was supposed to be for today (Sunday) ended up being for last night, I will at least make some brief comments real quickly before a more full review tomorrow. (I may re-think the every day thing to allow for no posting on Sundays :) ).

While there are blessings and struggles with every church, I appreciate the congregation of people among whom God has placed us. In a small church, it is sometimes difficult to know who will show up and what will happen when you try to schedule something special - so much so that at times you are weary of scheduling some things. (Or at least this is true of me.)

Since these meetings were rescheduled meetings, there were some folks with some scheduling conflicts. It was real disappointing that they could not be here for the start of the meetings, but I was greatly encouraged by the ones who did come. One gentlemen who usually works an evening/night swing shift even took the week off so that he could be here for the meetings every night!!

We got off to a good start as Mr. Kittrell laid some groundwork for the week and the people were encouraged, please pray for God to use these meetings and the preaching of His Word in a special way this week at Fellowship Baptist Church.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Some additional thoughts regarding evaluations

I meant to include this in my original post, but I was getting a little long and I am planning on sending that article to a Pastor friend of mine who asked more for some devotional type articles for a church newsletter he is starting and I wanted to stay under the 800 word limit he recommended.

One of the most striking illustrations of God's evaluations in the lives of the kings comes from the life of King Omri.

When we look in Scripture, King Omri is not given a very prominent place. We read about his life in 1 Kings 16:16-28 and it is not very impressive.

The most important things that the Scriptures indicate about Omri are the unusual circumstances of his becoming king, the fact that he moved the capital of the Northern Kingdom to Samaria and that he "wrought evil in the eyes of the LORD, and did worse than all that were before him." (1Kings 16:25)

Yet, when we look at Omri's role from a secular standpoint, we may get the impression he was one of Israel's better kings - or at least most powerful and influential kings.

In regards to his military strength, he apparently had conquered the Moabites and subjugated them according the the Moabite Stone.

In regards to his foreign policy, he apparently had good relations with the Phoenicians based on the marrying of his son Ahab to the Phoenician Jezebel.

In regards to reputation, the Assyrian chronicles reveal that the Norther Kingdom is referred to as the "land of Omri" for years - even to the point of calling Israelite kings "sons of Omri" even though they were not of his actual line.

If an American president had made similar advances in these important areas - military, foreign policy, and cultural (the successful move and improvement of the capital), he would probably be given some prominence in the history of the nation. Instead, Omri is relegated to just a few verses and the fact that "he wrought evil in the eyes of the LORD."

Just some additional thoughts,

Frank

Some thoughts about evaluations

Recently, I was once again studying the life of one of my favorite Bible characters and became intrigued by a little description that was given concerning his life. I had notice the expression many times (in fact, I even have a sermon which uses part of the expression as part of the title), but as I thought about the expression again, my mind went in a different direction than normal.

In Second Chronicles 34, as we read about the life of King Josiah of Judah, we find that in the second verse, the author gives an evaluative summary of the life of King Josiah. The content of that summary is simply, "And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the ways of David his father, and declined neither to the right hand, nor to the left."

Josiah did "that which was right in the sight of the LORD." This is the evaluation that the Chronicler makes of Josiah's life under the inspiration of the Spirit of God. While I have generally gone from that truth to consider what it means to do that which is right in God's sight, this time I thought about the evaluation itself.

If you were to take the time to read through the records of the various kings of Israel and Judah after the division of the kingdom as presented to us in God's Word, you will find that a similar evaluative statement is made repeatedly regarding the various kings. The pattern for such an evaluation is usually rather simple: "(King's name) was (age) when he began to reign . . . and he did that which was (right/evil) in the sight of the Lord." Following the summary evaluation, usually some additional details are given regarding the king and his reign, but it is the evaluation of the king that sticks out.

When God chose to evaluate the kings, He did not do it based on the external matters that often concern us - he instead evaluated the kings based on if they did right or evil in His eyes. While most of us would evaluate rulers based on things such as military strength, foreign policy expertise, economic stability, cultural advancement, God shows a higher concern - did this person do right in my sight.

When we evaluate our own lives or the lives of others - what qualifies as success to us? Is it financial well-being? Is it the importance of our job - or how high up the corporate ladder we stand? Do we evaluate the success of our lives by how many people follow us or what kind of special skill we might have? OR do we evaluate our lives based on the simple criteria established by God's Word - am I doing right in the sight of God?

What about the lives of our children? Are we most happy when they are getting good grades and scoring goals OR are we most pleased when we see them growing in Christ-likeness and doing right in God's eyes?

Perhaps it is time that we evaluate things from God's perspective. It is not the pocketbook, the position, or the popularity that determines success - it is a life of obedience to God.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Advice to Young Pastors (or all Pastors, for that matter)

I came across this article recently and, since I am too tired to write anything significant myself, I thought I would share this with you and encourage you to read the advice offered in this article - To The Young Pastor by Ron Gleason.

I have never heard of Ron Gleason before and the article is written from a Presbyterian viewpoint, but much of the advice seems equally valid for Baptists or Bible Church pastors. Of course, it should go without saying, including a link to a person or ministry is not meant to imply endorsement of the person or organization.

A couple of comments to whet your appetite.

As pastors, it is our job to do the Lord's bidding where He calls us, according to His purposes, and for as long as He requires our services there

The preacher's foremost task is to preach the Gospel. Many voices in Christianity today tempt us to forget this. They encourage us to do what will attract the unsaved. Nevertheless, the pastor is primarily called to proclaim the riches of Christ through the preaching of the Word and the clear exposition of Scripture

Manage your time to the glory of God. This is a crucial, essential component of the pastor's life and calling. Far too many pastors waste precious time performing ever-nebulous "networking." Time, once spent, cannot be regained. Therefore, how we use our time matters greatly.

Just someone else's thoughts on a topic that is dear to me,

Frank

I'm Baaack

I doubt that very many people actually missed me or even noticed that I have not posted in about one month, but I have decided to resume my life as a blogger.

Over the last month, time constraints have been kind of heavy and blogging has dropped even lower in my priorities. I have also looked at my site some and realized that some of the bells and whistles that I thought were set up were not actually working - for instance, many of the labels did not actually return the articles that I thought they should return. I struggled a little bit about fixing the situation or if I should just hang it up and put up a closed sign.

However, as I thought about it longer, I decided not to do that. When I started blogging, I did so, in part, because I had some goals in mind. Some of those goals have morphed over the last year and a half, but I would still like to work on my writing and my thinking, I would still like to have an opportunity of writing about things that interest me (rather than merely responding to what interests others), I would still like to continue the fellowship that I have found online with some whom I may never meet in person, and I would still like to take a stand for Christ and make a difference for Him. So, instead of shutting this thing down, I have decided, instead, to renew my commitment to blogging during this month of May and do a 30 days of blogging challenge with myself. It is my intention (and now I am stating it publicly) to try to post something every day during the rest of the month of May, 2008.

I am also working on/hoping to complete the following adjustments.

* Re-labeling my older posts so that they can be found easier.

* Adding an items of interest sidebar

* Adding a blogroll (finally - and with disclaimers, of course)

* Establish a regular schedule of posting (e.g. certain things on certain days)

* Adding some specific Gospel messages or links

Anyway, this is my new commitment. We have a busy month ahead of us as a church, but I have discovered that there always seems to be a busy time ahead, so there is no time like the present.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Building Blocks of the Christian Faith

Over the years I have looked at a lot of materials that focus on the concepts of discipleship. From books and sermons about the general concept of discipleship and mentorship to books and sermons that try to give specific discipleship programs to actual discipleship books that are designed for either self-study or one-on-one discipleship.

In a study of those things, many cover some basic building blocks of the Christian faith. However, I wonder what you would include if you were writing such a book or if you were preaching on these building blocks. What things would you include?

Just asking,

Frank

Final Four Results and Final Standings of A Thinking Man's Tourney

Wow! Last night's overtime win by Kansas over Memphis was a pretty good game. For some reason, I found myself rooting for Memphis, even though I did not really care who won. I had the privilege of joining with some folks from church as we watched the game projected onto a screen in Steven Fleming's pad. It was pretty cool.

I know it is easy to second-guess a coach after the fact, but Steven can attest to the fact that this is not just second-guessing. I think Memphis should have fouled Kansas on the last play before Chalmers took the three-pointer. With only 10 seconds left, the only way Kansas wins that game is by doing exactly what happened. (Of course, I guess they could have made one free throw and then missed the second one on purpose and gotten the rebound and made a shot to tie - but that is more difficult than making a three-pointer.)

Since Kansas won the game and no one in the Thinking Man's Tourney picked Kansas, the standings remain the same as they were in the previous post. So, for the second year in a row - Congratulations to Sam Knisely for winning The Thinking Man's Tourney.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

On the Ordination Service of David Field

On Sunday night, March 30, I had the great privilege of being able to take part in the Ordination Service of Pastor Dave Field at Hardingville Bible Church in Monroeville, New Jersey. Dave is a great guy and I greatly appreciate his asking me to take part in this significant milestone in his life. I look forward to continuing to watch and rejoice as Dave walks and serves God - along with his wife Dawn and the rest of the family.

My part of the service included giving the "Charge to the Candidate", which is designed to be a challenge to the one being ordained concerning life and ministry. In preparation for this, I re-read the books of 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus, especially noting the commands regarding life and ministry that the Apostle Paul gave to these two young ministerial men. It was a good reminder of the types of things that ought to be our higher concerns in the realms of life and ministry and it was a challenge to me as I re-read these familiar passages.

Trying to narrow down the charges that Paul gave to Timothy and Titus into something that could be preached in 15-17 minutes is a bit of a task. There are around 50 different charges that Paul gives in these few short books. Some of them are repeated in the different books, some of them are unique to the situations, and some of them are unique to the addressee, but overall there is much in them that should apply to all of us who stand behind the sacred desk.

As I sought to narrow it down, I went with a little thematic view, taking a separate passage for each main point. My main points were all taken from common passages from the Prison Epistles and each is deserving of their own sermon. (Which may explain why I accidentally went over my allotted time by about 10 minutes - oops!)

I. Be a Pattern in Your Character (1 Timothy 4:12-16)

While the 1 Timothy 4 passage expresses this specifically, the same idea is included multiple times within these three books, both in specific charges to Timothy and Titus or in the concern for character expressed in the requirements for office that are listed.

As Pastors, we must be concerned that our character serves as a pattern to other believers. It is not enough to be able to stand up and give a "preaching performance." It is not enough to be able to "do" things. God is more concerned with our person than our performance. Repeatedly Paul focuses on what these men in leadership are like in their character.


II. Be Purposeful in Your Charge (2 Timothy 2:1-7)

Men in ministry have been given a special task - the edifying of the saints for the work of the ministry, the holding forth of the Word of Truth, the training of others who will, in turn, train others, the proclamation of God's Word.

If we are going to accomplish these tasks, we must be purposeful about it. We must be purposeful in our responsibilities, not allowing ourselves to be caught up in a lot of wasteful activities. As a soldier endures and a runner strives and a farmer labors, so must the man of God endure and strive and labor in the task that God has given us.

III. Be a Preacher who Continues (2 Timothy 4:1-8)

We are to proclaim as a herald the message of the Word. We are to be instant and ready whatever the circumstances may be. We are to carefully take the Word of God and use it to reprove, rebuke and exhort, being careful that the manner in which we do so is with all longsuffering and doctrine.

As Paul continued in this task until the end - so much so that he could confidently rest in the fact that he had fought a good fight and finished his course, so must the man of God continue in the task of faithfully preaching the Word of God no matter the circumstances.

If you are a Pastor reading this, may I encourage you to take a thoughtful re-reading of the Pastorals some time in the near future. It will do your heart good.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

P.S. In an earlier post I wrote regarding the Ordination Council and the process of preparation that Dave went through in regards to his preparation for that Ordination Council. (You can read that post here .)

Scoring update - with a twist from Andy Efting

After last night's games, only one person has a chance to have the ultimate champion - Andy Rupert chose Memphis as his eventual champion.

The current scoring is:

1. Sam Knisely (217)
2. Matt Jury (199)
3. Frank Sansone (191/190)
4. Andy Rupert (188)
5. Ron Bean (180)
Andy Efting is still only 1 point away from Mr. Bean.

Speaking of Andy Efting - he commented on the last post that we should skip the bonus points for the seeds and rounds and just go with the number of games correct.

That would, of course, be changing the rules when the games are almost over, but maybe we should do that next year.

If we went by correctly predicted games, the leader board would be as follows.

1t. Sam Knisely (43)
1t. Matt Jury (43)
3t. Andy Efting (39)
3t. Andy Rupert (39)
5t. Ron Bean (38)
5t. Frank Sansone (38)

Of course, the entry from What If Sports (which has Kansas beating Memphis in the Final) would still be in the lead with 47 correct and the entry that simply chose the higher seed for each game would be in second place with 45 correct.

Anyway, most of us are now toast anyway since the games Saturday went the exact opposite of the way many of us had picked them.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Final Standings before the Final Four

Leading up to tonight's Final Four match-ups of all number 1 seeds, the scoring for A Thinking Man's Tourney has adjusted a little bit.

The current standings are:

1. Sam Knisely - 217 points
2. Matt Jury - 199 points
3. Frank Sansone - 191 points (my other entry has 190 points)
4. Andy Rupert - 182 points
5. Ron Bean - 174 points
Andy Efting is sittin at 173 points, one shy of making the top five.

Interestingly, nobody has had their Final Champion knocked out and at least three players correctly picked the entire Final Four - Sam, Matt, and Ron.

For the sake of comparison, if you had just simply picked the higher seed team for every game, you would be at 208 points with all four teams remaining.

For those who are wondering, the WhatIf Sports computer (I mentioned it on this post) is beating all of us - it has 225 points with Kansas beating Memphis in the Final on Monday.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

On the Ordination Council of David Field

Yesterday I had the privilege to join a group of Pastors at Hardingville Bible Church in Monroeville, New Jersey as we questioning David Field regarding his life, his beliefs, and his call to the ministry. As expected, Dave did an excellent job of answering the questions. His thorough preparation for this task was obvious as he dealt with questions in all major doctrines. In addition to the accuracy of his knowledge, his humility and Christ-like spirit were evident throughout the ordeal.

I had the privilege of being Dave's Youth Pastor a number of years ago. I also had the privilege of helping him prepare his first sermon (on Deuteronomy) back in the day. Dave was a serious-minded teen in a time when many teens are far from serious-minded. Throughout his time at BJU and now as he serves as an Assistant at Hardingville Bible Church, Dave's growth in Christ and his desire to serve God's people has been evident.

Occasionally I hear of ordination councils that are essentially just rubber stamps and do not really question the candidate. I am grateful that in the circles where I live and minister that the men questioning seem to take their responsibility seriously. The office of a Pastor is not for the faint-hearted and is not the place for a novice.

While I have never been to a council where the candidate has been rejected, I do not think this is from a mere rubber stamp mentality, but rather due to the careful guiding of the candidates by their Pastors. At Hardingville, for instance, the candidates write out their statements one doctrine at a time and then the very experienced Pastoral staff (Pastor Franklin and Pastor Smith must have at least 75 years of ministry between the two of them alone) take the time to grill the prospect on that doctrine and suggest areas for further study. This process is done on each doctrine over the course of months and the candidate is not presented until Pastor Franklin and the church feels that he is ready for examination.

I count it as a privilege to have been able to participate in this council and look forward to the ordination service on Sunday night.

Congratulations, Dave. Job well done.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Where are the Men?

Missionary David Hosaflook was a classmate of mine at school and is an occasional blogger. His most recent post asks a question - and proposes at least a partial answer - that is a question many of us have - Where are the Men?

While he rights this in respect to where are the men preparing for the mission field, the same question is asked by many Pastors today regarding men to take leadership roles in their churches and to provide a model for those that are growing up in the church.

If you have a few moments, stop by and read David's article here.

Just someone else's thoughts,

Frank

Tourney Time - Round 2 Standings

As the NCAA Basketball Tournament has wound down to the Sweet Sixteen, the standings at A Thinking Man's Tourney have adjusted a little, but not much.

Andy Efting has dug himself out of the bottom of the pile and has forged ahead of Ron Bean by two points. This may be a battle between the two of them as we go further in the tournament.

On the other side of the spectrum, Mr. Sam Knisely has a pretty comfortable lead in the overall standings, with 181 points. I am in second place - all the way down at 163 points with my "gut" picks and 159 with my "mind" picks. Matt Jury is right behind me in third place with 158 points and Andy Rupert is in fifth with 151 points.

Don't have much time to comment, except to say that those who thought Eric Gordon was going to lead Indiana through a couple rounds of the tournament (like one of the ESPN analysts) should have taken time to look at some tape of the Illinois-Indiana game earlier this year. As some may recall, Gordon had originally indicated that he was going to play for Illinois and then was "persuaded" to play for Indiana instead. When he came to Champaign to play against Illinois, the crowd let him have it - and he stunk up the place. It was very clear that he was rattled most of the game - which was a sign to me that he would have some problems with the pressure of the tournament. (I know, it would have been more impressive if I had said this before they lost and then they had lost.)

Anyway, just my frivolous basketball thoughts.

Frank

Sam Knisely leads after the first round of NCAA Tournament

A Thinking Man's Thoughts Tournament Bracket Challenge is off and running. Last year's winner, Sam Knisely from PA is again performing nicely and has taken a lead after the first round of games.

Sam Knisely - 140 points
Frank Sansone - 124 points
Andy Rupert - 121 points

Andy Efting is struggling a little this year and is bringing up the rear. Can't blame him too much. His big hit is the loss of Clemson, who he had making it to the Elite Eight (perhaps a little alma mater pride there?).

At a quick glance it looks like everyone still has their Final Four intact and most of us still have our Elite Eight in tact, so things could be tight as we get to the end.

BTW, I nailed the San Diego game - on both my hunch bracket and my "real" bracket. I was thinking that the San Diego coach's time with Gonzaga would be an asset in a first-round upset type of game. (The Zags were great as underdogs, they can't seem to do it as a higher seed.)

If anyone looks at the standings and wonders why I did not list "Pastor Frank" in our scoring on this sheet, that is because Pastor Frank is not a real player. For him, I entered the results from "What If Sports." What If Sports put all of the games into a computer simulator and simulated the tournament 1000 times. The results of those simulations (percentage-wise) is the picks that I made for Pastor Frank. BTW, Frank Cheek is simply picking the higher-seed of each game.

Well, gotta go get some real things done.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

It's Tourney Time

Every year, we have a friendly and free NCAA Tournament Bracket Challenge here at A Thinking Man's Thoughts. Last year, Sam Knisely from Pennsylvania won first place and Ron Bean from Virginia won second place, with me coming in third place.

Well, it is that time again.

If you would like to participate, simply go to http://athinkingmansthoughts.mayhem.sportsline.com/e. When asked for a password, enter "tourney."

This game is only for fun (no money) and I will periodically highlight how things are going.

The rules for this tourney are as follows.

1. The games are weighted by round with a bonus equal to the seed number of the winning team. (E.g. a 1st round victory by a number 10 seed awards 11 points - 1 for the round and 10 for the seed).

2. Each particpant should be able to fill in two brackets if you want (one for your head and one for your heart)

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Some quick thoughts

I know it has been awhile since I have written on here. I am hoping for some upcoming articles on the National Leadership Conference and some comments on the 9 Marks E-Journal regarding "What Can We Learn from Fundamentalists?" and the surrounding discussion (if I plan this right, everything useful will have already been said and I can just link to it:) ). In the meantime, I did want to make a few quick comments.

1. As many of you are aware (especially if you read this post), this week was supposed to be a week of Special Meetings at Fellowship Baptist Church of Salisbury with Evangelist Mark Kittrell. Unfortunately, Mr. Kittrell's mom has experienced some serious medical issues and the Kittrell's needed to go to Florida to see her. Please pray for her and for the family as the next couple of weeks could be a very difficult time.

2. Moments with the Book is sponsoring a "Million Tract March", with the goal of spreading One Million Gospel tracts during the month of March - especially in the week leading up to Easter/Resurrection Sunday. In order to help accommodate that goal, they are offering some free tracts to those who go to their website and sign-up for them. Check them out at the Million Tract March.

3. Take a minute to read this from Andrew Naselli - Childlike Faith About Heaven. The article discusses the reaction of the classmates of a 5-year old girl who was tragically killed.

Just some quick thoughts for now,

Frank

2008 National Leadership Conference

For a number of years, I have attended the National Leadership Conference hosted by Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary in Lansdale, Pennsylvania. I just got back today from the 2008 edition of the National Leadership Conference.

As my normal practice, I plan on writing some articles over the next week or so regarding the NLC, including an overall evaluation and some specific workshops.

However, I am going to start this edition a little bit differently.

I did not get up to the NLC until Wednesday this year, so I asked fellow Pastor and friend Matt Jury to write a report of the opening session for me.

So, without further ado, I present a guest-blog report of the opening session by Pastor Matt Jury.

Tim Jordan preached the opening message of the conference. In his inimitable, fresh, and transparent style, Tim set the tone for the entire conference. His text was Deuteronomy 29.29 and 30.11-14. What follows is a very brief synopsis of the message.

There are many things about God that we do not know. We are often more concerned about the things which God does not reveal than that things which he clearly reveals. We would squabble and separate from each other under the banner of fundamentalism and under the guise of separation. We are more concerned about our labels, which are sometimes misapplied, than we are about the central theme of God's Word, which is what God has chosen to reveal clearly about Himself. Furthermore, we would be
embarrassed to take upon ourselves (ironically in the ministry of Christ) the very label which was applied to Christ. Christ was completely orthodox in His doctrine and teachings, yet the only label which could be placed on Him was that of compromiser because He went where the sinners were to do the Father's will.
Are we willing to be considered a compromiser in the same way?

We ought not be concerned about labels. We ought not be concerned with the preservation of fundamentalism, which is essentially a movement, and all movements are man-made. If we are to live a life that is true, we do not have to go to great
lengths or to the end of the world to determine God's heart and mind. God's Word is truth, and we can do nothing to preserve God's Word. You may rest assured that God will preserve His truth. He will take care of the things which are secret, and He
will take care of the things that He has revealed.

What must we do to preserve truth if God is already preserving His truth? God gave us His Word not so that we would preserve it through defense but through obedience. The only genuine preservation of truth that God desires from us is simply to obey
what He has revealed!

If you purchase only one message or workshop from the entire week, I unreservedly recommend the opening message. I also recommend for those who read this synopsis who are preachers to study this passage and preach it to your congregation or audience at some point in the near future. I intentionally did not include the outline of the message so that you could develop your own thoughts as the Holy Spirit's illumination works in your heart and mind.

May the Lord richly bless the reading of His Word.
Laus Deo (Praise be to God!)
Matt Jury

Thank you, Pastor Jury for your contribution.

Just someone else's thoughts,

Frank

New Mover Lists

There are a number of services that are advertised to Pastors and churches that promise to provide churches with a current list every month of the names and addresses of everyone that has moved into your area in the previous month (or quarter or whatever you desire).

When I was helping out at Blythewood Baptist Fellowship in South Carolina while in Grad School, we used one of these services, although I do not remember which one.

I have often been intrigued by them and have thought about pursuing this as an option to let new people in our area know that we are here and invite them out, but I can't quite swallow the price on our small church budget.

Over the last couple of years, however, I have thought, "This information must be publically available somewhere," but I have not been able to locate that source. There is a county government web-site that lists homes sold, but it does not list who bought the homes. I am in the process of looking into some other options of obtaining this information through legwork instead of finances, but I thought I would use this space for one of the things it is good for - I would ask those of you out there in cyberspace.

1. Do any of you have experience at using any of these services and what are your thoughts about them?

2. Do any of you know a way to obtain this informaiton without going through a service such as this? It seems that they have to get it from somewhere and if they do, why can't I?

Anyway, looking for your thoughts,

Frank

Upcoming Meetings with Evangelist Mark Kittrell

The church where I serve as Pastor, Fellowship Baptist Church of Salisbury, is excited to be welcoming back Evangelist Mark Kittrell and his family for some Special Meetings from Sunday, March 9, 2008 through Wednesday, March 12, 2008.

I know that some of my regular readers are familiar with the Kittrells and their ministry. (It is also my understanding that at least one church has had the Kittrell's for Special Meetings after reading about them on this site!)

If you live in the Salisbury or surrounding area, I would love for you to join us for these Special Meetings. If you do not live in the area, please be in prayer for God t work in these meetings and for the people of God to be challenged and for some to come to know Christ.

I have set up a page on the Fellowship Baptist Church of Salisbury website with some additional details about the meetings. That page can be found here, although the better way to reach it is probably through the main site (www.fellowshipbaptist-salsibury.org) and then clicking on the banner near the top.

Mr. Kittrell and his wife are long-time friends of ours. I had the privilege of traveling with them when I travled on the Minutemen Evangelistic Team back in 1991. Missy has known Tammisue even longer, having worked with her at The Wilds Christian Camp and Conference Center in North Carolina the summer before I traveled.

We had a great time of meetings the last time they visited us, in November of 2005. In fact, I blogged about the meetings we had with them soon after I began this blog (and soon after I began my Pastoral blog - The Pastor's Pen). You can check out some of those posts here, here and here.

If you live in the area, I greatly encourage you to come out and join us for these special meetings. You will be challenged, blessed, and encouraged.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Shaq's Debut

Tonight was Shaquille O'Neal's debut with my Phoenix Suns.

My initial thoughts after having seen most of the game.

While the Suns lost (more on that later), I saw some things I liked and some things that need work.

Top four things I liked

1. I was pleasantly surprised that Shaq looked like he was in better shape than I was expecting. As Shaq said, "I am in better shape than I thought I was."

2. There were stretches where you could almost see this working down the road - especially as the game wore on.

3. The Suns rebounding looked like it took a step forward. While I expected Shaq to get some boards, if tonight is any indicator, it looks like his presence will also help Amare Stoudamire get some more boards - and that is a good thing!!

4. Shaq's effort looked pretty good. He dove and ran and looked good.

Top four concerns

1. There were times Shaq looked lost on the plays - and that Nash also looked lost about what to do with/for the Big Guy. This is not unexpected considering this is the first game together, but with the West being as tight as it is, they need to get in sync sooner rather than later.

2. The Suns defense looked very bad at times. The blocks were nice, but the Suns have to stop the pick and roll and Shaq needs to be willing to come out of the paint to get guys like Gasol when they shoot shots from just beyond the elbow.

3. It looked at times like the rest of the Suns were trying to adjust to Shaq rather than the other way around. This is not what the Suns need to do if they want to win.

4. The Suns just dropped out of first in their division, L.A. has the tie-breaker for home court in the playoffs, and the Suns have a loosing record against the other playoff caliber teams in the West. That is not good. (Of course, you could also argue that this is one of the reasons why they needed to make the gamble of the Shaq trade in the first place.)

Anyway, those are my quick thoughts after the game.

Frank

National Leadership Conference 2008 is quickly approaching

As many of you are aware, I try to make it up to the National Leadership Conference hosted by Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary every year and then write up some reports from the conference.

This year's National Leadership Conference is February 26-29 and I finally made my reservations today. It is my intention to follow my normal planning of doing reports from the general sessions and workshops as I have done over the last few years.

I noticed a couple things on the schedule that seem to be an improvement.

1. I like the fact that all of the Ladies Session are being held on one day. This will hopefully allow my wife to be able to come up for the Ladies Sessions on Thursday for the first time. (I usually try to buy the tapes/CDs of the Ladies Sessions for her, but it is not the same as being there - and besides, last year's didn't record properly:) ).

2. I like the fact that they are repeating some of the sessions. I would like to see more of this, but at least this is a step in the right direction.

If you happen to be attending the National Leadership Conference at Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary in Lansdale, Pennsylvania this year, as well, please look me up. I would love to meet with you.

Oh, yeah. If you would like to look at some my previous reports from past National Leadership Conferences, I think you can find most of them under "Conferences"


Just my thoughts,

Frank

A Game of Interest

As many of my regular readers are probably aware, I am a lifelong Phoenix Suns fan. Having spent a number of my formative years in the Valley of the Sun, I look forward to each basketball season with hope that the Suns will finally be more than "The Little Team that Could ... And Darn Near Did" (to quote the title of a book about the "Fabulous Rise of the Phoenix Suns" by Joe Gilmartin after the Suns nearly won the NBA championship against the hated Boston Celtics early in the team's history).

It seems like most years the Suns have had pretty good regular seasons, but can't quite get over the hump when it comes to the playoffs. As the Suns are putting together another splendid regular season (the Suns are currently tied with New Orleans for the best record in the West at the All-Star break), many folks around the league have indicated that the still don't think the Suns could get it done in the post-season.

Last week, however, the Suns took a giant gamble. The Phoenix Suns made a trade with the Miami Heat to acquire Shaquille O'Neal in a trade that cost the Suns perennial all-star Shawn Marion.

On Wednesday, Shaq is expected to make his Suns' debut in a game against the long-standing arch-rivals, the Los Angeles Lakers.

As a Suns fan, I am looking forward to this game with interest. I am a little mixed on the trade, but after hearing a number of NBA pundits rip the trade for a few days, I tend to think that it may actually be a good trade - or at worst, it was worth the risk.

Throughout the Suns' history, they have often been pursuing the elusive big man. From losing the coin toss for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Lew Alcindor in those days) to the disappointment of William Bedford and the tragedy of Nick Vanos, the Suns have never really had a dominating Big Man. The only center in the "Ring of Honor" is Alvin Adams - who was a great player, but at only 6 foot 9 was clearly not a traditional Big Man. Probably the closest thing to a pretty good Big Man the Suns have ever had was Mark West, who put together a couple of decent seasons in the 1990s.

The arrival of Shaq provides the Suns with possibly the first legitimate Big Man in franchise history. The question, however, is if Shaq can still play. Shaq had a down season last year and is off to an even worse season this year. Many of the pundits think that Shaq is washed up and that the Suns should not have made the trade.

The conventional arguments against the trade are as follows:

1. Shaq does not fit into the Suns' up-tempo style and will slow the team down.

2. It is a bad idea to mess with the chemistry of a team that is on track to be the Number 1 seed in the West.

3. Losing Marion means the Suns give up their best defender on a team not known for defense.

4. It weakens the Suns bench, since Shaq will not be able to play the type of minutes that Marion played and losing Banks out of the rotation and the Suns already have a short bench.


There may some validity to some of these issues, but I think the case is not definite.

Here are my concerns then my arguments FOR the trade:

Concerns:

1. Shaq may really be hurt to the point of being just a shell of the old Shaq. I don't expect him to be anywhere close to what he was in his hey-day, but it would help if he was at least 80% of what he was when he helped Miami win the ring two years ago.

2. The Suns may try to make too many adjustments to fit Shaq's style of play instead of vice-versa.

FOR the trade:

1. Championship experience. Shaq has it - Big Time! He has been to the Championship with all three of his previous teams (Orlando, L.A. Lakers, Miami). In none of those teams did he have the complete surrounding cast that he has in Phoenix.

2. Size matters - especially in the play-offs. If you look at the teams that win NBA Championships, one fairly common element is a very good Big Man. (Yes, I know, the Jordan-era Chicago Bulls never had a very good Big Man - but they are the exception that proves the rule :) ). Going backwards, we have Duncan, Shaq, Duncan, Wallace, Duncan, Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, Duncan until you reach Jordan's Bulls (and in the middle of the Bulls' run you have Olajuwan with the two between the three-peats).

3. Marion was wanting out anyway. Those who view this as mortgaging the future, need to realize that Marion was not going to be part of that future anyway. That is unfortunate. I am a big Shawn Marion fan. He is a great all-around player who does not get the attention he deserves. I wish him well in Miami, but rather than just having him walk away at the end of the year, the Suns got one of the greatest Big Men in NBA history (even if it is an older version).

4. Shaq will not slow down the Suns (unless they let him). Remember that the Showtime lakers had Kareem at center. A fast break starts with a rebound (or, in the Suns case, sometimes a made shot by the opponent). Shaq has always been a pretty good rebounder - especially defensive rebounder - which triggers that fast break.

5. Shaq allows Amare to move back over to his natural position. Amare is a power forward who has been playing Center at an all-star level for a couple of years. Shaq's presence allows Amare to move over and not to be forced to play the other team's big man. Hopefully this will allow Amare to remain as fluid as he is without getting into the foul trouble that he tends to get into guarding the centers.

6. This trade should enable Boris Diaw to have a bigger role - he will probably get some of Marion's minutes. Diaw is a very good player. In the year that Stoudamire was out, Diaw filled in admirably and almost helped the Suns into the championship that year.

7. Shaq is a very good team player. Shaq passes very well for a big man. He also has shown (in Miami) a willingness to play second-fiddle when needed. He has a very good understanding of the game and should be able to adjust his game accordingly.

8. Shaq has shown an ability to "turn it on" when needed. He does not have to have a great regular season. He only needs to have a good play-offs.

9. This team does not need Shaq to carry it. It just needs him to contribute in the right way. I would be wary of trying to build a team around Shaq at this point in his career, but the Suns aren't doing that. They are asking him to be a relief pitcher and help them over the hump. I think he can do that.

10. The time to strike is now. Nash is not getting any younger and the Suns' window of opportunity is closing. The last time the Suns were knocking this close for a long-time was in the pre-Barkley days. (Prior to Barkley's arrival, the Suns had won fifty or more games in four seasons in a row and had advanced to the Conference Finals two of those years.) While I was skeptical regarding the Barkley deal when it happened, hind-sight says it worked out okay :) .

Soooo, I am looking forward to seeing the Suns play the Lakers after church on Wednesday night. I don't think we can necessarily tell a lot about one game and I would not be surprised if it does not take a little bit of time until the kinks get worked out, it will be interesting to see the beginning of a new era.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

More Politics - Sorry

Something to think about:

"This year's election will be unusually consequential. In 2006, Democrats regained control of both houses of Congress. Democrats also now hold a majority of governors' mansions and state legislatures. The Left long has been regnant on America's campuses, in the mainstream news media, in the entertainment industry, and in the unions. A Clinton or Obama victory would put all levers of power into the same hands. What would Democratic Party bosses do with that? How about statehood for Washington, D.C., which would provide two new Democratic votes in the Senate? How about appointing judges who regard the Constitution as clay, and using immigration policy to expand the Left's electoral margins? These and other creative maneuvers could create an anti-conservative majority that would last a generation or
more. Most worrisome of all: Americans today are engaged in a conflict as serious as any we have ever fought... Thinking hard about such questions over the months ahead would be not just alright; it would be commendable---and conservative."

Source: Clifford May

Bob the Builder runs for President

We have been having a number of political primary commercials here in Salisbury. Because Delaware's primary was on Super Tuesday and Maryland's primary is tomorrow, we have gotten a couple of weeks of commercials on the TV and the radio for this area - although I am sure that we have not gotten nearly as many as more "battleground" areas received.

One commercial of which I have seen and heard repeated variations includes the repeated phrase "Yes, we can."

As I kept hearing this statement so many times, I kept having those moments when you think to yourself, "I know I have heard that before."

I figured out what it was! BOB THE BUILDER!! "Can we fix it?" "Yes we can"

So, is that Bob the Builder whose commercials I keep seeing?


Just my "tongue-in-cheek" thoughts,

Frank

Huckabee wins Kansas Caucas

Sorry for all the politics lately, but I find this interesting.

According to the Washington Post, Mike Huckabee has easily won Kansas GOP Caucus over McCain and Paul, et al with a 61% to 24% win over McCain. (Story here)

The Evanglical Outpost had an interesting post entitled, Voter-Based Reality vs. Pundit-Based Reality.

It would still be an incredible long shot, but it could become interesting to watch.

Just my thoughts,

Frank

Romney and Huckabee - Some thoughts on politics

Last night was the big Super Duper Tuesday primaries here in the U.S.A. While Maryland does not vote until next Tuesday, for twenty-one states, last night was their chance to make their voices heard.

For the last couple of weeks, the Romney campaign seems to be implying that Mike Huckabee needs to get out of the race. They complain that Huckabee is splitting the conservative vote and giving the nomination to John McCain.

The fact is, however, that this assessment is double-talk and inaccurate.

1. It is double-talk because Romney and his friends in the establishment of talk radio (Rush, Sean, Laura, etc.) have been stating for weeks that Huckabee is not a true conservative. Thompson complained that Huckabee is a "pro-life Liberal" rather than a true conservative. I find it incredulous that you can repeatedly rip the man as not conservative and then complain that he is splitting the conservatives - this seems to be double-talk. If anything, by the logic that they have employed, Hucakee should be viewed as taking votes from McCain since they claim that both Huckabee and McCain are liberals.

The reality, however, seems to be a lot of conservatives trust Huckabee's conservativism as much or not more than they trust Romney's conservativism. As I stated in this post, back in October - "I doubt the ability of Romney to excite the conservative base." I believe that this statement still holds true - and I don't think it is irrational that it holds true.

In another October post on this question (entitled, Thinking about Elections), I made the following comments which I still think are true regarding Romney.

Here are some reasons why I question the ability of Mitt Romney to excite the socially conservative rank and file are as follows.

1. His record and rhetoric as a social conservative is wishy-washy at best. If you take the time to watch the videos at YouTube of Romney's debates in Massachusetts, you will find that repeatedly he trumpets his views as pro-choice. "I will preserve and protect a woman's right to choose." (Here is one of many videos that the left will use against him on this - and that causes the little guys like me to wonder where the guy really stands on this issue). I recognize that he is claiming to be pro-life now, but this debate was in 2002 - we are not talking that long ago and the switch in positions at this venture (especially when he talks in other debates about how long his family has stood on this issue - since his mother ran for Senate) will seem too convenient and politically motivated for the average Joe.

2. He has not galvinized the base already with all the money he has on his side. Romney has spent a whole lot more money than Brownback, Huckabee, etc., but he still has not managed to stir up the excitement. The pundits out there keep talking about how great it is that he has raised a lot of money (although a lot of it seems to be money he has loaned to himself). That is true, but what kind of return is he getting for that money? In the August Iowa straw poll, Huckabee came in second with 18.1% and Brownback came in third with 15.3%.

3. Like it or not, the reality is that the Mormonism of Romney will cause many to be cautious about voting for him. Not just among conservative evangelical voters, but in the general election as well. I understand that "we are voting for a President, not a Pastor" has a nice ring to it, but that line did not work when people wanted to dismiss the character issue in regards to Clinton. The reality is that many Americans vote on how they percieve a guy as much as they do on the person's policies. This is especially true of the folks in the "undecided land" who wait until the last month to make their decisions. For many of these people, the election all comes down to their impression of a person - and for many, that impression of Romney as the great Mormon leader will be the one that holds them back.

In that same article, I wrote:

Imagine if the guys who seem to be trying to get the bandwagon going for Romney would put their efforts behind someone who evangelical Christians could support, rather than a man whose pro-life creditials are shaky at best?

2. Not only is the claim that Huckabee should drop out because he is stealing conservative votes from Romney double-talk since the people making the statements claim Huckabee is not a conservative in the first place, it is also inaccurate because it fails to match up the realities of the records.

* The logic that says that a Huckabee pull out would swing the primaries to Romney are based on a false assumption - namely, that Huckabee supporters would back Romney over McCain. As Michael Medved recently pointed out, a large chunk of Huckabee supporters actually have McCain as their next choice rather than Romney. Why? In part, because they trust McCain on abortion and judges more than they trust Romney on those issues. While McCain is not as strongly pro-life as I would like, he has at least a fairly consistent record of being against abortion for about twenty years in office. Romney, on the other hand, was not only pro-abortion, but bragging about how deeply he was for "choice" just a few years ago while running for governor of Massachusetts.

* The numbers from last night show that, if anything, Romney is hurting Hucakebee more than Huckabee is huring Romney. In the states where Romney got second, the elimination of Huckabee as a choice would not have made much of a difference - even if you gave Romney the vast majority of Huckabee's voters (which, as I said above, would likely not happen).

--- New York McCain - 51, Romney - 28, Huckabee - 11
--- Illinois McCain - 47, Romney - 29, Huckabee - 16
--- New Jersey McCain - 55, Romney - 28, Huckabee - 8
--- Arizona McCain - 48, Romney - 34, Huckabee - 9
--- Connecticut McCain - 52, Romney - 32, Huckabee - 7
--- Delaware McCain - 45, Romney - 33, Huckabee - 15

(The other state in this category is California, which, because of the congressional district apportionment of delegates would take more time than I wish to spend on this to figure out the delegate effect, but the Huckabee factor did not probably hurt Romney any more significantly there than anywhere else - esp. since Huckabee did not really play in California very much.)

If you will notice, even if you gave every single Huckabee vote to Romeny (which seem preposterous to me), the only pick up Romney could have made here would have been the small state of Delaware - and that would require us to suspend disbelief and give Romney 90% of Huckabee's voters.

On the other hand, in a couple of states where Huckabee pulled in second, the absence of Romney could have made a big difference.

--- Missouri McCain - 33, Romney - 29, Huckabee - 32
--- Oklahoma McCain - 37, Romney - 25, Huckabee - 33

Assuming only a 60/40 split of Romney's votes to Huckabee and both of those states swing into the Huckabee column (and Missouri was VERY close and a winner-take-all state of 58 delegates).

(The stats from these races are from Real Clear Politics accessed this morning with over 90% of precints reporting in each state.)




So, what am I saying?

1. Romney and the talking heads should wake up and face the music. Huckabee is not Romeny's problem - Romney is. You can't live your whole life as a "moderate" Republican and then change your mind when it is time to run for President and all the sudden claim to be THE conservative.

2. If the talking heads (and Romney) really want to stop McCain, their best bet is to drop Romney and enthusiastically support Huckabee. (I don't see this happening.)

3. The effect of the repeated hits on McCain from the right may have enough of an effect to hand the Dems the victory in this next election, since some of these idiots have been making comments to the effect that "there is no difference between McCain and Clinton". Get real. McCain has a lifetime conservative voting record of over 80% whereas Clinton and Obama have only a 6% conservative record. Do I agree with McCain on everything - NO WAY!!! But only an idiot would claim that there is no difference between McCain and Clinton.

Anyway, I guess I should stop now.

Just my thoughts,

Frank